General Feeling about the short lived R1200ST?

Dr. Curve · 10-02-2010, 01:25 PM

I never rode one, but I watched one from behind, and from in front as well, while riding with another Pelican brother and it seemed to me that the 2005 R1200ST would do just about everything anything else would do. What is the collective feeling of the group here about the bike. Sure...........it looked like a praying mantis with cyclops problems from the front.......but as far as the engine, fairing, brakes, lights, and the like.........did it really have any problems. Are they good on the open road and can they carry a passenger with easy and comfort? I have often thought of getting a two up bike now that I am riding slower and my wife stills like to "gopher broke" every once in a while. They seem to be rare and not well liked...........is there any real reason for this? What should I look for in problems that are common on just that one model? Any glitches that might be well hidden? Thanks in advance. I KNOW Dee Jones can help on this........others? Dean O? Are they heavier that a RT, or if lighter, how much so?

jomarti2 · 10-02-2010, 01:50 PM

Coincidently I've been researching this model this past week as a more comfortable trip machine than my 'S'.

I learned it was imported only one year, 2005, that there are relatively few for sale and they seem to be in the $7500-9000 price range. And yes, they definitely have an 'Alien" appearance from the front. I can't provide mechanical/reliability info not having owned one ( least not yet).

IBMWR has a couple lisited as does BMW Sport Touring Riders site.

Deans BMW · 10-02-2010, 02:37 PM

Jim, my R1200ST was the first one sold in the US, the bike was great, infact the best sports tourer that I have ever had. The head lights were the best stock lights on any motorcycle. It would hit between 142 and 147 at the rev limiter in 6th depending on the rear tire (Bonneville Salt Flats)

The aerodynamics are so good that you can not tell if there is a head wind or not, I once road from Rachel to Tonopah Nevada, 110 miles in less than an hour, ran out of gas pulling into the station in Tonapah. Up here in the mountains I would play Go Fast with the best of them.....and was always waiting for them to catch up regardless of the bike they were on.

Just sold it the other day. and replaced it with a '10 R1200GS and a R1200S.

Dee Jones loves his.

Dr. Curve · 10-02-2010, 02:38 PM

Thanks Bubba, but I am hoping for some first hand information on it. The specs look great but nothing like hearing about it from a previous or current owner. Thanks for the sites, however.

jaytee · 03:15 PM

I owned an R1200ST for nearly 4 years and almost 30,000 miles. I can say without reservation that it was the best motorcycle I have ever owned or ridden. It had it's flaws, don't get me wrong, but as a do-it-all boxer with all the advantages of the telelever suspension, boxer engine, full system bags, abs, adjustable clipons and windshield the bike filled a niche of sport-touring like no other bike IMHO.

To put it into perspective across the line, I would call the RT a 5 sport, 7 touring bike, I would call the S an 8 sport, 3 touring and I would call the ST 6 sport, 5 touring bike capable of reaching a 7 sport easily with shocks and tires.

It's marginally heavier than the S but noticeable lighter than the RT. the seat is fairly low making it a good choice for vertically challenged riders. The engine feels the strongest (due to lower curb weight) of any other R bike save the S and HP2 (without the flat spots of the S). The handling is spot on with a nice balance between higher speed stabiliy and quick turning. It has the same short wheelbase that makes the R bikes so fun in the mountains.

While the "alien" look of the front stacked headlights and atypical (for BMW) angular hexagonal lines
turn off some BMW purists, those hated headlights are by far the BEST I have ever experienced on a motorcycle. They are as good (no kidding) as the Xenon lights on my wife's Mazda CX9. Also, it is an unusual looking bike that stands out in a crowd of insectile japanese inline fours and roundy bmw/ducatis.

The bike was imported to the US in 2005 and sold in 2006 with a model year '05 designation. There were several combinations of 2-tone colors available involving blue, silver, red, graphite. In 2007 the ST was available in the US as a special order only in silver and black with the new ABS (non-servo) and traction control as an option. The ultimate in rare streetable BMW's in the US (IMHO) is that 2007 ST in all black with ABS, ASC, trip computer and heated grips. I don't remember exact numbers but somewhere around 620 R1200ST's total were brought to the US with probably less than 20-30 of them 2007 models. I have never seen a 2007 ST for sale used and suspect the owners have no interest in parting with them for many years yet.

As to their warts (and I am truly nit-picking here), the servo brakes have a learning curve and are not immediately comfortable to those used to conventional non-powered brakes. The stock suspension is weak and rear struts tend to fail (no damping) in alarmingly short order. The V shaped windshield, while sheeting rain around the rider, creates a bit of buffeting on medium to tall riders. The low-ish seat means that the ass-to-peg distance is a bit lower than typical. This is alleviated somewhat by having an adjustable seat that can be raised or lowered (like the windshield and the clipons). Even in the high position the bars are definately more agressive than the RT (closer to the S, in fact). All of these ergonomic issues can be addressed in the aftermarket. The final drive has all the typical probelms, but not is such numbers as the other R bikes (prob because of lower weight [RT] or lower power [S]).

What can I say, it's a great bike. I doubt any boxer afficianado would be disappointed if the ergonomics were acceptable. The linked brakes work amazingly well for no-thought abs braking (using front lever) with a seperate rear braking channel for trail braking or slow speed maneuvering.

I'll be honest, if I could have sourced an '07 with limited miles with the non-servo ABS and ASC I doubt I would have bought the S. Now that I have lived with the S's limitations (harsher suspension, non-linked brakes, lack of luggage, s#!tty headlights, *hard* seat) it would be a hard choice between similarly optioned bikes.

If any boxer lover has the opportunity to pick up an ST for a good price in good condition (and it fits youand your pillion), I can guarantee you will not be dissapointed. It's that good.

JT

Dr. Curve · 10-02-2010, 02:42 PM

Thanks Dean, that all I need to hear. I may pick up one soon but there are not too many around. I talked to one guy and he wants me to make him a offer. How many trouble free mile did you put on it BTW? Most of them I have seen have 15 to 45 thousand miles on them. Should I worry too much if one has over 30 on it? I doubt it.

Dr. Curve · 10-02-2010, 02:48 PM

THANKS JT........between you and Dean........thats great news. I can update the shocks if necessary and get used to the brakes. Gosh the Black 2007 is a beauty. I have never seen one like that anywhere. Was yours still running strong at 30000 miles?

jaytee · 10-02-2010, 02:54 PM

Doc,

Mine is *still* running strong with me on most rides I take as I sold it to a close friend of mine who both commutes with it daily (over 6k miles in the last 4 months) and runs the twisties with me here in SoCal. The only issue I ever had with it was a $30 clutch switch. If you would like to do some real research on these bikes with lots of owner input, go to BMWST.com and do a 4 year search for every forum post with "R1200ST" in the title. I contributed quite a bit to that forum on my own experiences (I am also 'jaytee' over there) and it is *by far* the best ST resource on the web.

If you have any specific questions feel free to ask me and I'll let you know what I know and what my opinions are.

JT

Deans BMW · 03:07 PM

Jim, JT above gives an excellent write up and spot on. I sold mine with around 36,000 trouble free miles.

I had a full Remus on mine and at 36,000 miles it dynoed 101 at the rear wheel on Chris's dyno. The only problem it had was a blown rear main seal after A&S over filled it with 5 quarts of oil and I played Go Fast in Northern California immediately after and as I always seem to hit the rev limiter that extra quart did the deed, got all new tranny and engine seals plus a complete new clutch and flywheel assy out of the deal.....not on my dime either. I had several 900 plus mile days on it.

jaytee · 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nail24

The only thing that kept me going back to the RT was the cruise control for touring, Jim. I guess there was nowhere to stash it on the ST. It's not as dry a bike as the RT but it looks better than the RT for my eyes. The illumination from the headlights is equal. Both bikes have dual low-beams. If BMW had those stabilized headlights in it it would be the ultimate night riding machine. It's about 125 lbs lighter than the RT. Are the wheelbases the same?

I will say that in my experience the ST headlights are noticeably better than the RT's - YMMV. As to stats:

R1200RT
Wheelbase = 1502mm
Wet Weight = 259kg
Rake and Trail = 63.8*, 115.8mm
Travel F = 120mm
Travel R = 135mm

R1200S
Wheelbase = 1487mm
Wet Weight = 213kg
Rake and Trail = 66*, 87mm
Travel F = 110mm
Travel R = 120mm

R1200ST
Wheelbase = 1502mm
Wet Weight = 229kg
Rake and Trail = 63.0*, 111.6mm
Travel F = 110mm
Travel R = 140mm

Bear in mind that there are fuel size difference in those weights. I ran with a full remus ti as well and had no problems with lean condition and the bike did not require fueling to be addressed.

JT

dee jones · 10-02-2010, 04:54 PM

Jim, I have 2 ST's and I can't add anything to what has been said. Simply the finest all around bike I've ever owned. I know where there is one available with relatively low miles. Call me if you'd like and I'll give you Fred's #. BTW its a steal if its still there.

Bigred455 · 10-02-2010, 04:57 PM

Curve, I think there is a guy in Charlotte who would trade one of his ST's for your HP2S.

dee jones · 10-02-2010, 05:02 PM

I don't think I could get Dr. Curve to go for that but it sure sounds good. Have a safe ride home on that fine machine George Hill. BTW those tires don't last long in the NC twisties.

Dr. Curve · 10-02-2010, 05:53 PM

Has anyone seen one of the 2007 units with the updated brakes for sale? I have never seen one period. I really appreciate all of this input. I have never owned a non airhead BMW bike that was not a S of some type so I am new to all of the touring BMWs since my last one which was a 1984 R100RT. All "S" or "RS" units since then.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Other than the hideous front end, I've never heard a bad word about them. How many other bikes can you say that about?

jaytee · 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nail24

Jim, the ST was only sold in the USA for one year, 2005.

This is not correct. As I mentioned in my previous post, the R1200ST was sold as a model year 2005 and then held over (with additional units imported) in 2006 as a 2005 model year. In addition, the R1200ST was offered in America as a model year 2007 with updated brakes and a solid back or silver paint job. This same bike was available in Canada as normal dealer stock. ASC was an option on these 2007 bikes.

In answer to Doc, Yes, I have seen exactly *one* 2007 R1200ST at Chicago BMW in mid 2007. A guy had put a $500 deposit on it many months before and had let it sit at the dealership for a month. I tried to buy it but they said they had to wait another couple of weeks or so. The guy came back from Europe and paid the balance, IIRC, $18.5k fully loaded black. I ended up buying a 2005 from NC with 900 miles on it for $11.9k instead. Still had a year of factory warrantee on it.

I have been looking for a black 2007 ever since. If I ever find one in excellent condition I would gladly pay a premium to permanently use one of these extremely rare BMW's to start my personal collection!

JT

jaytee · 10-02-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deans BMW

...The aerodynamics are so good that you can not tell if there is a head wind or not...

Completely forgot about this - the R1200ST is the best motorcycle I have ever been on in wind. The angles on the spokes, the 3/4 fairing just covering the rough bits, the wind-tunnel designed front end, there is just *no* wind cross-section to speak of. To my feel the ST is affected less than half what the S is affected by in cross winds. (sorry for the horrible sentence) --

The ST handles superbly in adverse conditions.

JT

jaytee · 10-02-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nail24

JT, did the '07 go to a single disc front brake from the double disc on the '05?

No, it went to the non-servo ABS that was released for the RT and the R that same year (not sure about the GS). If you want to know more details about that system (AFAIK, it's the same system that is on the S) then check out this nice write-up on the tech at webbikeworld:

BMW ABS and ASC - webBikeWorld

JT

edit: Not sure where you got that spec, Bubba, but the '07 ST's are a dual brake setup up front.

Dr. Curve · 10-02-2010, 07:26 PM

The 2007 was a special order in Black only and came with the newer brake system. I have never seen one Bubba, but was just curious as to if anyone on board here had. JayTee filled us in pretty good about it several post above.

jaytee · 10-02-2010, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Curve

The 2007 was a special order in Black only...

Doc, it was also available for order in all silver although I have never seen a picture of an actual '07 bike in anything but black. Here is a pic of a guy over on the BMWST.com board with full bags:

JT