Lennies BMW Rocket Sprockets new pricing

[signit98]

You are still missing the point, Chris.... you are talking exclusively about the R11... whereas the much larger chunk of potential buyers are coming from the R12 side of the spectrum.

Sure, there may be a few people who still care about the 11 enough to work on it and want to improve it. But that time certainly has passed. The R12 engine, however, has been sold in multiples of the R11 and there is a TON of potential customers out there, seeing how (my experience) the sprockets deliver even more improvement on the R12 engine than they do on the R11.

[Rapid Dog]

...gave a plug for sprockets for someone who asked about them over at ADV for you Lennie.
There is no argument here.
So take it somewhere else or start a new thread.
I think I'll buy a set.

[Chris Canning]

Originally Posted by signit98

You are still missing the point, Chris.... you are talking exclusively about the R11... whereas the much larger chunk of potential buyers are coming from the R12 side of the spectrum.

Sure, there may be a few people who still care about the 11 enough to work on it and want to improve it. But that time certainly has passed. The R12 engine, however, has been sold in multiples of the R11 and there is a TON of potential customers out there, seeing how (my experience) the sprockets deliver even more improvement on the R12 engine than they do on the R11.

That made me smile the R1200s sold in such numbers take your shoes and socks off you probably count all the sales ,infact is was so good they stopped production in under 2 years you get a hand full of RT people turn up on here and that's it,there maybe somewhere to market a few to the RT people who may even be remotely interested in extra performance but it ain't here,but as I said in the post if you get out there and look you can get the same result with a Rexxer map that also advances the iginition hence why you can't have sprockets and a map,it's been tried!!!

It bit like extolling the virtues of a wined up watch yea it'll work but there are easier ways the game has moved on,1100/1200 it don't matter.

[JimMoore]

Originally Posted by GDM

Check the web site.

Performance Charts R1100S BMW

Gerry

Thanks. I was having a little trouble following exactly which mods were made. It looked like the graphs were for sprockets + induct + (maybe?) rechipping. Is there one for stock vs sprckets only?

[signit98]

Originally Posted by Chris Canning

That made me smile the R1200s sold in such numbers take your shoes and socks off you probably count all the sales ,infact is was so good they stopped production in under 2 years you get a hand full of RT people turn up on here and that's it,there maybe somewhere to market a few to the RT people who may even be remotely interested in extra performance but it ain't here,but as I said in the post if you get out there and look you can get the same result with a Rexxer map that also advances the iginition hence why you can't have sprockets and a map,it's been tried!!!

It bit like extolling the virtues of a wined up watch yea it'll work but there are easier ways the game has moved on,1100/1200 it don't matter.

Ahem... aren't you missing a "few" R12GS's? Only the single most sold bike in BMW history... about half a million, give or take.

Also, I personally couldn't care less about re-mapping... I have a fuel management tool and a set of sprockets. Both easy to do and easy to modify, BY MYSELF... the result is a very crisp bike at less than $350.

While you may not like it, or the idea of putting more money into your 11S, doesn't mean there isn't a lot of potential out there, still.

[Chris Canning]

There's me thinking it's the R1100s/R1200s Forum

As for mapping hell who wants to take a spanner to an engine when you can have a map blown in way cheaper,it's 2013 not 2003

[signit98]

lol... to me, tinkering is more than half the fun, Chris!

[GDM]

Jim,

I thought this would answer your questions and posted the link without actually reading it.

Sorry if that's not what you needed.

Gerry

[JimMoore]

Originally Posted by GDM

Jim,

I thought this would answer your questions and posted the link without actually reading it.

Sorry if that's not what you needed.

Gerry

No sweat. It's really just mild curiosity on my part.

Thanks again,

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by JimMoore

Thanks. I was having a little trouble following exactly which mods were made. It looked like the graphs were for sprockets + induct + (maybe?) rechipping. Is there one for stock vs sprckets only?

Here you go, this is for an R1100S.

BikeBoy.org - BMW R1100S With Boxer Performance Cam Sprockets

Quote. "The improvement isn’t large, and I’m sure the drop at the top of the graph will be interpreted by some as a catastrophe by some (that’s what people do). But unless you’re running it over 7,500 RPM often (and need the power over 7,500 RPM) it’s not really a big issue. And there’s a pretty consistant 3 – 5% from 2,500 to 6,500 RPM. The biggest change I noticed when we were doing mine all that time ago was the improvement in part throttle response. Just makes them feel stronger in the lower rev range, especially helping drive out of corners."

The consensus seems to be that the R1200 gains more from the sprockets then the R11, and the improvement in part throttle performance is greater than the full throttle graph indicates.
Anyone who has fitted the sprockets will tell you the improvement in low to mid range torque is obvious and enjoyable. The engine can be used down to 1500rpm in high gears without complaint, cant do that with the standard setup.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by Chris Canning

That made me smile the R1200s sold in such numbers take your shoes and socks off you probably count all the sales ,infact is was so good they stopped production in under 2 years you get a hand full of RT people turn up on here and that's it,there maybe somewhere to market a few to the RT people who may even be remotely interested in extra performance but it ain't here,

First you did not consider models other than the R1100S, now you want to limit the discussion to R1200S and possibly the RT.
Many bikes are commonly discussed here including plenty of non BMW models. Why should a discussion about Lennies sprockets, which fit the vast majority on boxer bikes, not include ALL relevant models?

Originally Posted by Chris Canning

but as I said in the post if you get out there and look you can get the same result with a Rexxer map that also advances the iginition hence why you can't have sprockets and a map,it's been tried!!!

Really, I've be using altered fuel and ignition maps with the sprockets for years, works great.

Your understanding of how internal combustion engines operate seems to be rather lacking. Valve timing is a dominant factor in how an engine draws in air at any particular rpm, and therefor has a very significant effect on volumetric efficiency and effective compression ratio.
Most modern car engine designs employ variable valve timing to give a broad spread of torque and maximum efficiency. The cams are advanced at lower rpm for improved low end torque and retarded at high rpm to give good top end power.
Without variable valve timing systems the designer has to make a choice, either maximum low end torque, maximum top end power or something in between, they cant have a cam setup that does everything.

BMW in their wisdom went with a setup that slightly favors top end power over low end torque, that may be the best compromise for people traveling at 140mph on an autobahn and give the highest HP numbers to put in the product advertising, but for most of us its less than ideal. The sprockets re tune the engine for better low down performance more suitable to normal use.
The 9 degree cam advance allows the engine to draw in more air from 1000 to about 6000rpm than is possible with standard timing and therefore allow more power to be produced in that range. No ECU remap or fuel tweaking device can do that.

All a Rexxer map can do is fine tune fuel/air ratios and ignition timing. Fuel/air ratios have to be a long way off to significantly affect power. Slightly lean normally provides the most power, but most people tend to prefer slightly rich as it gives a smoother running engine that feels better to use. The difference in power is tiny either way.
Ignition timing is important for performance and throttle response. Luckily the BMW ECU uses knock sensors and adaptable ignition advance. The default advance curves can be a little conservative when good fuel is available, but luckily we can force more advance and more fuel with a simple air temperature spoofing device (a resistor attached to the intake air temperature port of the ECU). This simple and very cheap mod adds enough fuel to get away from the lean standard mapping and gives us a smoother more response bike. The extra advance gets automatically trimmed to the ideal by the knock sensor feed back system.
So we can get 90% of the advantages of a Rexxer remap for $10, the other 10% I could not care less about.

I strongly suggest people installing the sprockets also add a temperature spoofer, either home made or purchased from one of the various vendors. The combined effect of both is very impressive and well worth having IMHO, especially for the tiny cost.

I can provide resistor values for anyone that is interested.

[Chris Canning]

If you spend more time reading everyone's post and not just mine!! you'll realise how you wasted yours!!.

Re what ever you are doing Rexxer won't,well actually not just Rexxer.

[lennie]

signit,

I agree the tinkering is the fun part. The result of the changes are fun too and to have that fun everytime you ride is even better.

Owen,

You have always been happy with the result like many others and it is from first hand experience.

[Chris Canning]

Lennie

Try the UK GS site there are also plenty of RT owners on there,but be warned the guy who has a strangle hold with engine mapping won't touch a bike with your sprockets.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by Chris Canning

If you spend more time reading everyone's post and not just mine!! you'll realise how you wasted yours!!.

Re what ever you are doing Rexxer won't,well actually not just Rexxer.

I could not care less what "Rexxer" or anyone else will or will not do, their services are not required.

ANY competent tuner can tune with the sprockets installed, its no more complicated then tuning for a different exhaust.
Fact is that unless people are doing a lot more than just installing the sprockets no tuner or tuning is required as most bikes will run just fine as is.

Its easy to tell if the bikes not running right, and if there are signs of excessive leanness (which can happen) a simple and dirt cheap temperature spoofer will cure the issue, guarantied.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by Chris Canning

Lennie

Try the UK GS site there are also plenty of RT owners on there,but be warned the guy who has a strangle hold with engine mapping won't touch a bike with your sprockets.

Unless the Rexxer mapping is leaner than standard it will work just fine with the sprockets.
If people don't tell Rexxer they have the sprockets installed Rexxer will never know.

[lennie]

Chris,

I do visit UKGSer and post there. There is interest but I think overall most BMW riders feel there is no need to modify their bikes.

One thing you need to understand is that he sprockets are bolt in and the bikes run fine without tuning. I have been selling these since 1999 and the people that do tuning usually have other intake and exhaust mods that they need to tune.

FIM or UltiMap as they later became did chips for the InDuct/Staintune (and other exhaust combos) and InDuct/Staintune/Sprockets (and other exhaust combos) and they helped the performance and fueling. Brad the Bike Boy was responsible for getting these done with Duane at UltiMap and they sold a good number of chips before he shut up shop.

[Chris Canning]

Originally Posted by lennie

Chris,

I do visit UKGSer and post there. There is interest but I think overall most BMW riders feel there is no need to modify their bikes.

Well I have to say the Hilltop remap thread with it's number of pages and hits suggest other wise,when I had a Rexxer map blown into my K1200 it transformed the bike I got more bottom end more top end and more MPG,the game has just moved on engine tuning comes in the shape of a lap top.

But just to reiterate my first post have a look at recent on here first thing that crops up money,even on the like of a paralever can you imagine that 5 years ago,most of the big spenders have left,different clientel different ball game.

[OwenM]

Why do you seem to think we must make a choice between a remap OR Lennies sprockets?
Each brings its own advantages and the effects are cumulative when BOTH are done, so why do half a job and get only half the benefit?

Most of the benefits of a remap can be achieved for $10 so I see the remap as poor value, and for the R1200's sold in this part of the world just unnecessary unless the bike is heavily modified.

[Chris Canning]

It's not a choice of map or Lennies sprockets the latter is what you did years ago just as pre PC days there was War and Piece on here about which chip to use then the PC came out and that was the end of the conversation,PC's are now in the process of being superseded

Modern day solutions come in a lap top,I'm not saying do I like it or not but the game has move on it's the way it is.