Swings but won't start

[viggen]

Hi all

Changed the battery the other day and strangely enough started having issues starting the S the very next day. It swings quite strongly but just doesn't take. It sometimes takes up to 30 seconds worth of swinging (usually in 5/6 second bursts) to get it going. I've tried starting it with the clutch pulled in, bike in neutral with the side stand up, but no difference.

It mainly happens in the morning and if I don't ride throughout the day at the office, it will sometimes struggle come home time.

Any ideas what it could be?

Thanks.

[Droptarotter]

By "swinging", do you mean cranking over?

If so, how old is the fuel?

Don't assume a battery is good just because it is new. Have you checked the voltage of the new battery?

Cheers

[viggen]

Yep, cranking.

Fuel gets replenished at very least once a week.

Battery and charging was checked and all is well (12.9V goes to 13.6V when running).

[Droptarotter]

Old spark plugs or non working stick coils?

[lisc]

Pull out a spark plug - is it wet? If so most likely you have fuel. Connect plug to coil stick and rest it on the cylinder head so it grounds. Crank engine. Do you see the spark jumping the spark plug gap? Don't overthigten the plug when you put it back in! What color is the plug? If you smell a,whole bunch of fuel please try not to blow yourself up doing this test.

[Roger 04 RT]

In order to start well when the engine is cold, the dual-spark R1150 bikes require a fully functional electrical system. Even when the starter and battery seem fine, there can be problems. You can read about my experience here: Starter or Battery 2004 R1150 | Adventure Rider.

The short list of issues:

--undercharged battery (even though it spins the engine briskly), what is the key-off battery voltage after it sits overnight?
--high starter current (even though the starter seems fine)
--weak spark plugs (even though the bike runs well after starting)
--weak primary (stick) or secondary coils, how does it run if you disconnect the secondary plugs?
--ignition switch problems, all three coils draw current through the key switch on the dual-spark. As the switch ages, the voltage drop gets greater and the stick coils don't get enough voltage. BMW added a Second Load Relay to later production models to power the stick coils directly from the battery. Is there a Second Load Relay? (post a photo of the electrical box)

[ckcarr]

IS this a brand new battery you changed out to? Or, just a different battery?

What battery is it?

Cause & effect. You changed it, things changed.

[Meeni]

Are you sure the battery has enough CCA ? voltage is only one indication of battery wear, it also have to be able to deliver the right amps.

Also, just verify that the connectors are secure on the battery posts.

[captainasty]

Plugs are cheap get some more. I found that I had a cracked plug but not enough to keep it from running. I could pull the plugs, swing the motor and then replace the plugs. All was good in the world. It was HARD to start after setting for a bit and did fine warm or run regular.

[viggen]

Standing Voltage is about 12.8V, ignition on about 12.5V, starting briefly drops to about 10V and charging is about 14V.

The battery is brand new and the place I got it from had it on one of those fancy chargers before we installed it. Not sure about the spec, all I know it's a 12V 18Ah, no idea about the CCA.

The plugs are NGK Iridium's and less than a year old.

I recently changed the one stick coil, so both coils are of the new variety (for what that's worth).

I previously checked out the coil wiring and they are not connected to all the other goodies coming from the ignition switch, so I have to assume they go to a load relay. Not quite sure where that would be though :roll eyes:

Think that about covers it

I'll try and scratch a bit again tomorrow ...

[Roger 04 RT]

Post a photo of your electrical box. The 2 Load Relay is directly to he left of the coding plug if it exists.

Another possibility is that your oil temp sensor isn't working. Does the temperature rise normally?

[viggen]

This is the battery ... AGM Vor-Gel wartungsfreie Motorrad-Siegelbatterie MGS1218 Hersteller von Shantou China, {2}, {3} OEM Produkt

This is what it replaced ... LC-X1220P | Panasonic Battery

Left side electrical box ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/kmypfuj65xbhfdr/2016-03-19%2008.21.51-1.jpg?dl=0

Right side electrical box ...https://www.dropbox.com/s/0irtzvql2c5sikc/2016-03-19%2008.23.56.jpg?dl=0

The S has no temp indication so no clue. Is there any other way to check the sensor?

[Roger 04 RT]

The values for the oil temperature sensor can be found here: 2004 R1150RT Wideband O2 Sensors - Page 21.

The BMW SLP 2.2 wiring diagrams confirm that the R1100S had some models with and some models without the added relay but your electrical box layout is different than the R1150. Unless someone else knows, you'd have to try and account for all other relays and see if there is an extra. Then if there is, you could remove it and see if coil power to the stick coils is lost.

[viggen]

I cleaned up the battery lead terminals, pull the injectors and checked if they were spraying (which they were) and then pulled the plugs and checked if they were firing (which they were). All of this is rather strange though because when I try and start it, it doesn't seem to "sputter" or anything like that, it just swings. I don't get a heavy fuel smell or anything like that so it must be that something is prohibiting the injectors from actuating and the plugs from firing. What could cause this the of scenario (can't see it being clutch, neutral or stand switch).

Where is the oil temp sensor? I'm assuming is not the little goody next to the oil sight glass.

[Roger 04 RT]

Does your bike still eventually start and run normally?

Let's try and understand the fuel situation further. If you are riding in 5th gear and roll the throttle open fully, does the bike accelerate normally?

Your situation would be much clearer if you could take a cold-start, realtime log with a GS-911. It would answer all the questions about whether the sensors were doing the rich thing during start-up.

[viggen]

https://youtu.be/MOi6zy6Y52g

This is what it sounds like when starting ... will recheck the rest on my way home now, although I haven't really noticed any "hiccups" or anything while riding.

I proceeded with the rolling on of the tests and all seems good, it pulls cleanly to redline.

Suppose it's time to see if I can beg, borrow or steal a GS

[sgoodwin]

If that's the first cold start of the day it sounds normal to me. Give it a little throttle & it will start sooner. Sounds like you have the old left side cam chain tensioner in it but it's sh-it sound on a computer. Your replacement battery may be marginal for cranking this motor, my Odyssey puts out 220 cca & spins it up quick in my '99.

[viggen]

If I go according to what I've read, the nut size would indicate that the tensioner is of the new variety, but I also recall that even the new ones fail occasionally.

Oh yes and that was the first start of the day.

[viggen]

Well, it was the obvious point, battery. Took it back to where I bought it and I was told the battery would have to be sent back to the supplier to be checked out. Luckily they still had my old battery lying around so we stuck it back in and it's been starting fine ever since.

The strange thing is, the old battery turns the motor slower but it starts after about 2 revolutions (and the ABS will complain of low voltage at times), whereas the new battery would spin the motor much quicker but it would take 20-30 revolutions to start. Fine balance between having the right amount of Volts and Amps, I suppose.

Now to wait and see what the battery people have to say for themselves.

[sgoodwin]

I'd say you bought it from the wrong place, I would expect them to swap it out right there. Pretty b.s. that they are making you wait when it obviously is bad if your old one works & it doesn't.