vacuum leaks???

[randy_k]

A brief history. Awhile back MY99 wouldn't start after getting hot and parking it for about 20 minutes or so. Replaced the crank position sensor and it has seemed to cured that problem.
Next up. If I run the engine up to it's normal operating temp. About 180 and blip the throttle the engine sucks air and dies. I have removed the snorkel on the air intake on the drivers side and you can hear it suck air then quit.
I've read the possible problem that causes this issue could be a vacuum leak.
Is that a correct diagnosis? Also, Just received my Duramtric tool yesterday and ran the engine fault codes. Could a vacuum leak cause these codes. Also any opinions on the tank vent fault code.
Thanks for your thoughts opinions and wild guesses in advance.
Randy

[mikefocke]

Tank vent system problem
– Tank cap missing
– Ventilation lines detached from EVAP canister
– Ventilation line detached from tank
– Ventilation lines detached from operating
purge valve
– Ventilation line detached from EVAP canister
purge valve
– Break in ventilation lines

The injector problems

– Fuel injector (coil) Interruption
– Interruption in wiring

The fact that all the injectors are exhibiting a fault that could be injectors, wiring or ECO makes me think it is something common to all cylinders and thus not an injector as for all 6 to fail simultaneously is improbable.

The O2 sensors problem could be caused by something upstream.

[randy_k]

Thanks Mike, I have both the Wayne's book and the Bentley book and neither are very specific as to the vent lines. Other than where they attach under the car. No reference at the tank end. Unless I'm missing something. And that is always possible.
As far as the common issue regarding the injectors. That is why I asked if it could be a vacuum leak? That would be common to all the injectors if the injectors see a vacuum leak?
That's where I'm not sure. It would also be upstream from the O2 sensors. I would think.
Thanks again for your efforts and/or thoughts. Randy

[Wayne 962]

We're working on an article that will be up on the site referencing the tank, vent lines and charcoal canisters, etc. Working on it this week in fact.

As for the codes, that's a lot of codes, and they may have been in there a long time. I would write them down, clear them all out, and then run the car and see what codes return.

-Wayne

[randy_k]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

We're working on an article that will be up on the site referencing the tank, vent lines and charcoal canisters, etc. Working on it this week in fact.

As for the codes, that's a lot of codes, and they may have been in there a long time. I would write them down, clear them all out, and then run the car and see what codes return.

-Wayne

I did exactly that Wayne, Cleared them out and I'll report back on what returns. Look forward to the tank article. Let us know when it's up. Thanks for your help and efforts running this site!!!
Randy

[BYprodriver]

I would get a bottle of Chevron Techron injector cleaner & add during refuel with Chevron Premium. Then go out on Freeway & cruise @ 4000 rpm for several miles while monitoring engine temp. Check O-ring condition on your Oil & Gas cap ,WD-40 will improve the seal until you can get replacements if cracked.

[randy_k]

BY, I had just put some Techron in it at last fill up. As far as the gas cap. And as another note. Just thought of this. I bought this car on 12/24/2010. We have emission's inspection's here. I had that done the day I bought it. As if it didn't pass. It was going back to the place I bought it, that day. They check the gas cap and also plug into the car's computer to check for emissions issues. I would think. If all those faults were there that day. It wouldn't have passed emissions? But I don't know how in depth there computers go and what exactly it is they check.
Just wanted to add that info into the equation.
Thanks for your thoughts. Every little bit helps.
Randy

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by randy_k

BY, I had just put some Techron in it at last fill up. As far as the gas cap. And as another note. Just thought of this. I bought this car on 12/24/2010. We have emission's inspection's here. I had that done the day I bought it. As if it didn't pass. It was going back to the place I bought it, that day. They check the gas cap and also plug into the car's computer to check for emissions issues. I would think. If all those faults were there that day. It wouldn't have passed emissions? But I don't know how in depth there computers go and what exactly it is they check.
Just wanted to add that info into the equation.
Thanks for your thoughts. Every little bit helps.
Randy

It seems to me your car is running lean, possibly caused by partially clogged fuel injectors. (Start with the easy & cheap fixes 1st) Do you have written results from the smog test? post if you can. Was the check engine light on during testing? car mileage? When did the problem start?

[randy_k]

BY, The check engine light was not on. They won't even check it, if it is here. They'll say thanks for stopping by and come back when it's off. LOL
it's only happened twice. Once when I got home from work and decided to go get a pizza. About 5 weeks ago. Pretty much coasting to the stop light and blipped the throttle. Died. Crank, crank and started. But reluctantly. Like it was catching up to itself. chug, chug, chug, then caught. Then again last week. Same deal. Have to crank it a few times for about 15 seconds per. Let of the key and try again. Then again, chug, chug chug. then idling. You also have to add a little throttle to it to catch and when it does, it smells very rich from the exhaust. Now I will add. That once it gets running the idle is erratic. Up and down, from about 700 rpm to 1000. Which it doesn't exhibit on a normal start. Usually sits there and purrs at about 900. The car has 105k on it now and as you can see on the emissions test pic. About 104,500 on it.
Thanks again for your help, Randy

[randy_k]

Also, The AOS is caked with oil and dirt and there is a small bit of oil on the engine right below it. I'm thinking replace that. As I have no idea how old it is. And check all the vacuum lines for leaks.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by randy_k

BY, The check engine light was not on. They won't even check it, if it is here. They'll say thanks for stopping by and come back when it's off. LOL
it's only happened twice. Once when I got home from work and decided to go get a pizza. About 5 weeks ago. Pretty much coasting to the stop light and blipped the throttle. Died. Crank, crank and started. But reluctantly. Like it was catching up to itself. chug, chug, chug, then caught. Then again last week. Same deal. Have to crank it a few times for about 15 seconds per. Let of the key and try again. Then again, chug, chug chug. then idling. You also have to add a little throttle to it to catch and when it does, it smells very rich from the exhaust. Now I will add. That once it gets running the idle is erratic. Up and down, from about 700 rpm to 1000. Which it doesn't exhibit on a normal start. Usually sits there and purrs at about 900. The car has 105k on it now and as you can see on the emissions test pic. About 104,500 on it.
Thanks again for your help, Randy

Looks like the emission results box is empty, I was looking for Hydrocarbons level etc.

I would disconnect the battery cables, touch them together for 30 seconds, then leave battery disconnected for 20 minutes minimum, then reconnect pos.+ cable & next Neg.- cable then start & drive aggressively around city streets so computer will relearn driving habits.

[randy_k]

The only time here, there is any emissions results is, if they use the tube in the tail pipe method. That is only used on older cars. I don't remember the cut off year.
Just took it out for a rather aggressive ride. Well as much as you can get on a Saturday afternoon. If I'm stopped and blip the throttle. It sounds like it's overloading with fuel. It doesn't come off idle quickly.
But I'll give your idea a shot. What the heck. I have nothing to loose. Well up until the time, I set a wrench down and can't find it for a few minutes.

And as long as it took to type my reply, before posting it. I decided to start it for giggles. And crank, crank, chug, chug. After again three tries it started. Good thing. The battery didn't have a whole lot left. I have to massage the throttle to get it to run. Thought I had fixed that problem. It blows white smoke and smells rich when it does get going. Let it "try to idle" and kept wanting to die. Had to catch the throttle to stop it. Just let it sit a little more. Started right up. Let it idle and the air blower comes on and dies. Got it started again. Took it for another spin and ran fine. Pulled in the garage and let it idle. Heard the air blower come on and dies.
I've wanted a shot gun for some time now. And now I may have a reason to own one. I hear the left front fender is more tender than the right rear quarter panel if BBQ'd right!
Randy

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by randy_k

I've wanted a shot gun for some time now. And now I may have a reason to own one. I hear the left front fender is more tender than the right rear quarter panel if BBQ'd right!
Randy

Randy don't do it. Really?!!
Just a thought I skimmed over your problem and hope I haven't missed anything but it sound suspicious when starting with smoke. Sounds like your AOS has failed. I just pulled a customers throttle body and center intake of and found a pool of oil sitting in the intake down pipes in the center and of course traces of oil in the throttle body etc. all the way down into the valves. that would explain your smoke and rough idle. Who knows without being there and actually hearing it and playing with it.
Please before you resort to violence, try something else.
Harry

[Wayne 962]

Okay, so what codes are showing up right now?

-Wayne

[randy_k]

And life keeps getting better. Got up this morning and the screen for my PC is dead. Had to dig out this 8 year old lap top. Hook it up to the internet and download a gizillion updates.
Anyway, Ya Harry, That's what I'm thinking as well. I'm curious as to why the airblower is coming on when the engine is warm. Thought that only came on when it was cold.
Can't afford the shot gun now anyway.. Have to buy a new computer screen
Wayne, Checked it last night when my PC screen was still working and there were no fault codes. The CD reader on this thing doesn't work. So can't download the Durametric disk on here.
I'm a pretty detemined person and this thing will not beat me. With your guys help and some cash. I'll get her running. Thanks for you help gentleman. I greatly appreciate it.
Randy

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by randy_k

.
Anyway, Ya Harry, That's what I'm thinking as well. I'm curious as to why the airblower is coming on when the engine is warm. Thought that only came on when it was cold.
Randy

the air blower is supposed to keep the engine compartment cool. so yes it will come on when its hot

[randy_k]

Originally Posted by harryrcb

the air blower is supposed to keep the engine compartment cool. so yes it will come on when its hot

Any idea as to why when it kicks in the engine dies??? The idle rpm drops and then the engine stumbles and quits. Unless I feather the throttle. Or just a coincidence. Engine and compartment reaching the temp at which point the engine quits.
The longer this continues. The more I like my avatar.

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by randy_k

Any idea as to why when it kicks in the engine dies??? The idle rpm drops and then the engine stumbles and quits. Unless I feather the throttle. Or just a coincidence. Engine and compartment reaching the temp at which point the engine quits.
The longer this continues. The more I like my avatar.

I was going to do that avatar but you already used it. Have you checked the voltage output of your alternator? It might be coincidence but I suppose if your alt is putting out low volt then something like this could happen but you should then get an engine code for low voltage and a dash light. You may have more than one thing going on here. Also check your ground cable(s) - make sure that all the bolts on the cables are tight and not corroded ( chassis ground wire by your battery and the one in the engine compartment by the fan going to the engine starter bolt). All you can do is start eliminating any possibilities and then keep going.

[randy_k]

Harry, Thought the same thing. Blower drawing amperage and starving the ignition. But then I would think. (Man it hurts when I do that.) That it would exhibit the same problem when started cold and the blower comes on.
What I'm going to do, is buy all the things associated with the AOS and the AOS and while there, put an "S" model oil cooler in it. Clean the throttle body. And be done with that part. Everything new and eliminate that as a problem. What you would call a minor tear down. It can sit here till I do that. I have another mode of transportation that starts and runs every day. !998 Ford F150
I'm not giving up!!! Thanks for your input. You can have the avatar for all your help.
Thanks Randy

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by randy_k

Any idea as to why when it kicks in the engine dies??? The idle rpm drops and then the engine stumbles and quits. Unless I feather the throttle. Or just a coincidence. Engine and compartment reaching the temp at which point the engine quits.
The longer this continues. The more I like my avatar.

Are you talking about the engine compartment blower motor, or the aux air pump? I'm just guessing that you might be confusing the two. The engine compartment air blower shouldn't have any effect on the engine performance. The engine compartment blower motor is located all the way on the passenger (right) side of the car, and pulls air from the scoop on the right side of the car. The Aux Air pump is connected to the engine via a hose that resembles an 'S' and looks like a radiator hose.

-Wayne