% with IMS issue?

[bowenx]

Is there a # out there for what % of the Boxter/Caymans actually have an issue with IMS bearing?

Was the issue fully resolved with the 2009?

[tonythetarga]

One quick Google search brought up Pedro's garage article. Link below. His bottom line is quoted.
These numbers apply to M96 and M97 engines of Boxster, 996 and Cayman with those engines. Failure rates are per year, as I understand it from the class action suit. I will add that failure rates increase when driven and revs rarely go over 3k. Infrequent oil changes also cause problems. Minimally, oil changes should be done each year if driven 5k or fewer miles and at least every 5k miles. I do mine at 3k and drive it in a spirited manor every time out ;-))
Don't let dirty oil sit over the winter. Store with fresh oil.

And yes, from the Gen2 motors of '09 and on, the IMS issue went away.

Kaboom! Technical Article by Pedro

(*) We now believe that the failure rates vary according to the model year and the way it is driven, or not. The lowest failure rates (1-3%) are the ’05 and newer cars with the larger, non-removable single-row IMS bearing. The ’97 – ’00 cars with the double-row bearing have failure rates of 4-7% and the ’00 – ’05 have the highest of all failure rates, just around 10%. These rates seem to climb when cars are not driven for extended periods and seem to decrease when cars are tracked regularly.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by bowenx

Is there a # out there for what % of the Boxter/Caymans actually have an issue with IMS bearing?

Was the issue fully resolved with the 2009?

To answer your question, the early (97-00 and some 01's) carried the dual row bearing, which has demonstrated a 1-2% failure rate. The 01-05's carried the single row, which failed an 8-10% rate. The 06-08 engine's carried the oversized third design, which still failed at 1-2%.

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

To answer your question, the early (97-00 and some 01's) carried the dual row bearing, which has demonstrated a 1-2% failure rate. The 01-05's carried the single row, which failed an 8-10% rate. The 06-08 engine's carried the oversized third design, which still failed at 1-2%.

And those numbers are as of a few years ago and are the accumulated failures over as many as 15 or so years. Think of the worst bearing design as around 1% per car year.

Yes, Porsche stopped using the IMS design in '09.

And those that know most say that using the car regularly and reving it well when warm actually reduce the chances.

Anything mechanical fails eventually for some reason. There are lots of things that could happen to any manufacturers engine. Think of the bell curve of failure probability. Some fail early, some late, some never.

[bowenx]

Thank you all for the input. I had done a bit more poking around after i asked my wide open question - i was able to find many more links on the subject - but your summaries were exactly what i was looking for - so thank you again.

So - that being said - picking up a Boxster or Cayman from 06-08 - does not sound so risky - however the down side is that if it goes you are out an engine.

[ghtaboma]

Ever-wise Porsche dealer said : in the 2001 Boxster "S", the bearing going out is like getting struck by lightning! Stressed changing oil every 3000 miles.

[MARISOL78sc]

From the National Lightning Safety Institute Odds of being struck in the U.S. are Odds = 1 : 280,000 of being struck by lightning. I don't trust dealers.......

[mikefocke]

Ask him: if he changes the oil every 3k, will he replace the motor at no cost if there is a failure?

Car sellers will tell you anything and generally know comparatively little about the cars they are trying to sell.

The possibility of a failure is real. But then the possibility is there on any car. Any part. Any time.

The concern is that if a problem occurs, it is expensive to repair/replace relative to the cost of the car now. A $10k expense relative to when the car was new and cost $60k was one thing, but for the same cost against a car that perhaps cost as much as the repair would really hurt the person who could only afford the lower priced models of the Boxster line.

They are all really great cars (owned 2). By all means buy one if you can financially and emotionally accept the risk and understanding there is risk in any car you buy, especially one that could be 20 years old.

You only know about the possible issues because they are such great cars and we care about them so much.

[ASD]

at a recent visit to a large 100+ a month sales, Porsche dealer we inquired in the service department about this issue as we were considering (and bought) a 2008 Boxster S.
They told us that though low numbers have experienced this failure they have had very few if any at this store.
Also this car had low miles and I wondered if that would influence the likelihood .

[mikefocke]

Thoughts...

The overall statistics for the third generation are not influenced by what anyone working at the dealer would say.

Having said that, they are thought to be somewhere around .1% per car/year. That is 1/10 of a percent (not 1 percent) for every year you run the car.

I follow this issue on 3 continents, 9 forums. I don't see a lot of third generation failure reports, quite the contrary.

If the dealer is selling 100 cars/months now, that is lots more than he was selling in 2008 because he is selling SUVs and sedans now in addition to sports cars.

Also a 2008 is long out of warranty so he doesn't see all the cars he sold as the older they are the more likely to be serviced outside the dealer network.

Some mechanics who are very experienced with the IMS say that the more the car was used and the more it was exercised at higher revs (once well warmed up) the better for the IMS. They recommend quality oil and 5k miles oil changes.

[ASD]

It was just somewhat reassuring that the numbers are so low. I learned from many years of 911 ownership that you have to DRIVE them.
My son got what looks to be a great car, and sure is fun to drive.
Though I like my SC, still quite a lot after all the years I've had it.

[RichardNew]

I think the whole IMS thing was overblown.

Dealers replaced as many as they could find under warranty. That's how dealers make money.

The independent shops saw this and put fear into every Boxster owner's heart. They're still making a lot of money as the cars change hands.

Richard Newton
Porsche Concours College

[M. Murphy]

I have a 98 Base with 227K, no IMS issue, tight engine. It's entire life it has been driven hard. I'm not worried about it.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by RichardNew

I think the whole IMS thing was overblown.

Dealers replaced as many as they could find under warranty. That's how dealers make money.

The independent shops saw this and put fear into every Boxster owner's heart. They're still making a lot of money as the cars change hands.

Richard Newton
Porsche Concours College

Unfortunately, the problem is very real. As the owner of a shop, I have had to tell more than one teary eyed owner that his or her engine was toast as the result of an IMS failure. We even had one owner that had two IMS failures (in two different cars). He now drives another brand of car.

Point is that while the problem is real, there are multiple viable fixes available, and not all year engines are at the same level of risk. So depending upon the year of the car, and your risk tolerance, the risk could either be tolerable or preventable; but simply putting ones head in sand does not make it go away.

[mikefocke]

The IMS issues/IMS statistics are really three separate items, depending on which generation of car/engine you have.

And the fact that I had two Boxsters with one each of the first two generations and never had a problem in either is statistically insignificant. And matters not to the third generation owner.

The statistics are different.

Porsche has admitted in a court of law to some of the statistics. And paid penalties. So I think they just might be real.

And if you paid $3k-30k for a replacement engine plus installation, the problem/issue is all too real.

Be glad there are preventative solutions offered. Porsche said it was impossible. Some of those took hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop, test, package, manufacture and distribute before the developer saw a dime of profit. Others not so much. Thanks to all who contributed.

And, anecdotally, I know a guy who had one IMS failure and then another in the replacement engine Porsche sent him.

[cbonilla]

Originally Posted by RichardNew

I think the whole IMS thing was overblown

The independent shops saw this and put fear into every Boxster owner's heart. They're still making a lot of money as the cars change hands.

Richard Newton
Porsche Concours College

Beg to differ. I wish my indie shop had put the fear of god in me when I asked about the wisdom of an IMS replacement on my 2003 986S TIP with 95k miles. They repeated the conventional wisdom that if it was good at 30k it will be good for 200k. A year later I had a total failure caused by the IMS.

[ASD]

that stinks. But you never know, its a roll of the dice.
How many SC owners have had chain tensioners fail, or studs break.
A lot. But then there are some like me who have not had either, and had my SC for 23 years.

Too bad a car of the quality Porsche makes is susceptible to this crap...kinda like a Chevy or Ford..

[mikefocke]

on any forum for the term "roller" if you think it just marketing hype.

[Cook&Dunning]

I bought a 2009 because of the earlier IMS issue. I agree it is a real issue. I recognize some of the gurus that have commented here - they know much more than me about this - but my opinion is that it will be the later 2006 to 2008 cars that will carry the stigma long term. The earlier cars have a (relatively) inexpensive fix that can and should be a maintenance type service item - i.e. replace ims when you buy it, if you can't verify that it has been done recently, and then replace it when you replace the clutch. You don't need to drop the engine.

The tougher sell is the later cars that require an engine drop and splitting the case to replace ims. Major work. I wonder if all of these will eventually need to be done?

[DWBOX2000]

Curious, is the LM solution a fix for engines that the ims bearing location on the engine that is not perfectly symmetrical? Not sure the proper wording.