If you don’t like the company, you can always leave.
Harley is dead, it just forgot to stop breathing. SmileWavy
This defibrillator on wheels will not save them.

For the record, I was not bashing harleys. I like em'. To each his own. Just a little bit of humor ..... , very little. I always thought that south park skit was funny. Id still laugh if I rode a harley

an electric bike would be perfect for me in my current life situation. hell, i could charge it at work.

i've been looking at those Zero Motorcycles. even they are roughtly $10k. that HD, is badass but way to rich for my commuting ass.

this one. (edit: $17k+!!!)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1548780531.png

Not quite sure at the Motor Company's marketing angle on this.

$30K is a lot of money for a bike. That's the biggest hurdle.

Harley's sales are declining precipitously. Their bikes are aimed towards an aging (but moneyed) population. Those Harley faithful (and older riders in general) look at bikes for recreation. But market research indicates younger riders are more interested in bikes for transportation. So to convince a younger rider to part with $30K (that they likely don't have) and buy a bike (over a car), is going to be a challenge. But if Tesla was successful in selling the electric car as a desirable, premium item (unlike Nissan's Leaf and Chevy's Volt), maybe there's a chance for the LiveWire.

"...most of you..." ???

Do you know anything about what you are talking about? And what about folks like me that have had seven Porsches over time, while maybe in between ownership? (I do have a Porsche at this time, BTW.)

I think that was an attempt to validate your position although you don't mention whether you have a HD or not.

I don't care for bashing threads either but why harpoon the whole membership here to accomplish your agenda?

....think I'll stay, if only just to read the usually hysterical responses to the questions posed by the 40k post crowd.....

btw, my comment said nothing about how I think the LiveWire will sell, or whether or not HD will survive. I suppose the thread redundancy should be expected, after all.

SmileWavy:rolleyes::D:p;):confused:

For some reason, I am suddenly reminded if this Dilbert comic strip

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1548789317.jpg

I guess HD has realized they are on a dead end street with their traditional demographic market. I just don't see them doing well with this. They would have done better to start a new brand for the EV since "Harley" and "silent" seems to be a contradiction of terms. As far as leakage, the old adage is that a Harley doesn't leak oil, it marks its territory. The new electric will most likely leak value once the fad of being new has worn off.

This could be the Halo for the new technology, and there's trickle down product already or almost ready to go to market in the pipeline.

(Of course, this could also be Harley using customers for R&D (Hello Tesla!!) and they're hoping on a wing and a prayer to get over the technological hurdles in time to get some updated, cheaper product into a whole new and expanding market before the company tanks....)

Don't you think that the tech would be better marketed to the Gold Wing crowd?

HD sells over $300MM in apparel and general merchandise annually, and that's at a much higher profit margin than bikes. Ten years ago you'd see 50 year-old baby boomers covered from head to toe in HD, boots, shirts, watches, rings. heck, even bed sheets. I don't see that so much anymore.

With that fashion trend going passe', I can't see them staying financially viable regardless of the Livewire sales. You know they're cutting margins close on the Livewire to keep it semi-affordable.

WOW!!

that will keep the lights on, no?

How about Harley made a smaller lighter commuter bike? 500cc air cooled V-twin? The Japanese have been selling small V's for years.

I think you're right, Zeke. It is certainly not the whole membership to which I was referring. I stand corrected.

I am also, in fact, a Harley owner, and have owned multiple other brands as well.

The entire motorcycle industry is circling the drain, not just HD. They continue to dominate the market for "heavyweight" (over 700cc, an arbitrary line, granted) motorcycles with just about half of the market share, leaving the other dozen or so manufacturers fighting over the other half. Yes, it is a drastically shrinking market across the board, but HD still owns half of it. This dominance of their market segment would be akin to, say, Ford manufacturing half of the pickup trucks sold in the world every year. It's a market share others can only dream of.

The Livewire has been around for a couple of years now. Yes, Harley did indeed use its customers for R&D but, unlike so many other companies, did so before they put the product on the market, not after. They hauled a fleet of these things around the country to every bigger motorcycle gathering there is, from Daytona to Laconia to Sturgis, letting thousands of people ride them and soliciting their feedback. They brought them to dealerships so customers could ride them, and all in all, put a good deal of effort into getting the riding public onto one of them before they finalized the design.

They are not shooting for the pimply faced millennial buyer looking for cheap transportation. They are not looking to compete with Kymco scooters as some cheap ass urban commuter / bike messenger disposable plastic transportation. They are looking at making a technological splash, on the level of Tesla, to draw attention to the viability of an all electric motorcycle. They are looking to supply affluent people with a frivolous, but interesting toy with which to garner attention and get the conversation started.

The cheaper "transportation" bikes will follow, from other manufacturers, the ones that will fill the Nissan Leaf's niche, only in the motorcycle world. In the meantime, however, their next introduction will be their "modular" bike concept, with a sport bike and adventure touring bike. These won't be cheap either - think Ducati money for the former, BMW money for the latter. Harley will continue to aim for the higher end of the market where they have built their niche. Much like Porsche, they want to remain something to attain to, something to strive for "someday". That's their place in the market, just as Porsche has no interest in competing with Hyundai, Toyota, et al.

I'm no expert but the V rod is one badazz looking bike, if I had the $$$ one would probably be sitting in the garage. Shame they didn't put that engine in a sportier frame, especially after the spent all that money developing it.

They actually did just that, back in 2006. They called it the "Street Rod". They put a more normal rake on the front fork, put the pegs in a normal position under the rider, put twin discs on the front, and a bunch of other stuff. It got rave reviews. No one bought them. Pretty sought after today, since production numbers turned out so low.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1548797984.jpg

No objection here to the concept of an electric bike. Admittedly, I'm a little biased since we already have a Chevy Bolt. I just believe that attempting to sell a limited-range bike for $30K is going to be very difficult, even for Harley. Best of luck to them, but I'd be surprised if it turns out to be profitable.