Educate me on 2004 996 4S

[DWBOX2000]

Overall Thoughts?
Prices by mileage?
Reliability? Is the 4 wheel drive robust?
Things to look at when looking at one (pre ppi).
PPI of course.
Car I am looking at has 80k. I would have to drive hours to see so I need the right questions to try to avoid wasting time.
Thanks.

[Jeff Alton]

Same engine issues as all small IMSB 3.6 motors. Bearing failure and cylinder scoring are you big concerns. Smaller concerns are wear on the chain guide rails. 4WD system is pretty robust.

Good looking wide body car. Can be a great car to own. Just get a proper PPI.

Cheers

[WPOZZZ]

996 turbo without the turbo motor.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Jeff hit the high points. By 80k I would be hoping to see replacement of the air oil separator, clutch, water pump, and coolant expansion tank. Also there is a major service at 60k that should have been done, it’s not expensive if you DIY but a good bargaining point. Coil packs are also a weak point, I do the coil packs when I change the spark plugs. The rest is typical used car stuff. The interiors are pretty robust, less so if you get full leather which is nice but more readily shows wear and can peel on the dash of the car has seen a lot of sun. Burlwood or carbon fiber also likes to crack in cars that have sat out a lot. The nav if equipped will be useless, but the AC should be nice and cold.

I’ve personally never gotten the C4S. They typically trade for better than $30k and provide worse performance than the standard 996 due to their increased weight. They look cool but personally I’d either pay a little more for a TT or just get a minty normal 996. Or spend the same money and get a rare 50th Anniversary car with the X50 powerkit, M030 suspension, sport seats, and LSD.

[billybek]

I like the idea of the C4 or C4S.
Put snow tires on it and drive it year round.
Why not?

[DWBOX2000]

Thanks guys. I really like the way they look over the 996 Carrera. Now with an Aero kit I might think differently. I honestly don't drive fast. The car would be way more than I need in terms of power. So slower or not, not really a worry.

I'll ask the guy about receipts and see what he can come up with. I would definitely get a PPI. Got one on a C4 with aero kit last year. Thank god I did.

Strange with the S, I am reluctant to get rid of since I have put so much ($ and sweat) into it. It becomes part of the family, like a 2nd cousin.

I guess if I can get a real deal, I'll go for it. Otherwise option B is not so bad.

[DWBOX2000]

Just got car fax. Zero service maintenance listed. I would think maybe a DIY person but there is consistent Valvoline oil changes showing up. I'm thinking pass. Car has 81k and listed at 27k. It could have a lot of catching up to do.
Thanks again.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Just got car fax. Zero service maintenance listed. I would think maybe a DIY person but there is consistent Valvoline oil changes showing up. I'm thinking pass. Car has 81k and listed at 27k. It could have a lot of catching up to do.
Thanks again.

If you're that pessimistic you will be looking forever. How 'bout getting an inspection done complete with an oil analysis before throwing in the towel?

[DWBOX2000]

Good advice Zeek.

[afterburn 549]

Dont pay anymore then what you can afford to fix.
If you buy a boat on the bottom of an ocean there is more to it then just a hole somewhere.

Just count these as going to blow the engine at some point.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by billybek

I like the idea of the C4 or C4S.
Put snow tires on it and drive it year round.
Why not?

To be fair, I drove a 996 C2 year round with snow tires. Hell I drove a 1970 911T in the snow on AS tires, it was my only car! With good tires the 911 is great in the snow.

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Just got car fax. Zero service maintenance listed. I would think maybe a DIY person but there is consistent Valvoline oil changes showing up. I'm thinking pass. Car has 81k and listed at 27k. It could have a lot of catching up to do.
Thanks again.

Honestly Carfax is useless. If the seller doesn’t have records but the car is nice it’s still worth a PPI. Carfax maintenance records are totally voluntary and many indies don’t bother.

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Dont pay anymore then what you can afford to fix.
If you buy a boat on the bottom of an ocean there is more to it then just a hole somewhere.

Just count these as going to blow the engine at some point.

Sorry but that’s one of the dumber things I’ve read on these forums. I’ve owned close to ten 9X6 cars, and only one had a replaced IMS for PM. No exploding engines. Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Honestly Carfax is useless.

So true. I've had two large insurance claims on 911s not show on Carfax, another on a BMW (repaired by dealer) not show, but a pedestrian who claimed I tapped her in a crosswalk and whose EMS visit my insurer paid the $500 for showed as a claim. That was fun to explain to the eventual buyer.

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

To be fair, I drove a 996 C2 year round with snow tires. Hell I drove a 1970 911T in the snow on AS tires, it was my only car! With good tires the 911 is great in the snow.



Honestly Carfax is useless. If the seller doesn’t have records but the car is nice it’s still worth a PPI. Carfax maintenance records are totally voluntary and many indies don’t bother.



Sorry but that’s one of the dumber things I’ve read on these forums. I’ve owned close to ten 9X6 cars, and only one had a replaced IMS for PM. No exploding engines. Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet.

By your own odds, and admission you show that I am absolutely correct.
If someone is the guy that buys just "ONE" and it turns out it needs an engine, then he dam better be financially ready for it!
20K ? ready?
I don't think it is prudent advice to say just buy it , all will be well.
Sleep good.
One out of six odds......according to you.
Some are OK, some are not.
Are you feeling lucky punk? LOL

[speeder]

Actually, the way I read it is that he owned "close to ten" and none had an IMS failure. One had the IMS replaced. When they fail, the fix is not to just replace it.

[Peterfrans]

Owned one (a cab). Liked the looks. Less impressed with ride quality (quite harsh on less than perfect surface), seats/seating position (only car ever to give me severe back pains after a few hours drive, but I am 6'4''). Not all that nimble. Take a long testdrive to see if it the car for you. And my IMS went out at about 40k miles. Now on a 981S and much happier in all regards

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by speeder

Actually, the way I read it is that he owned "close to ten" and none had an IMS failure. One had the IMS replaced. When they fail, the fix is not to just replace it.

Pretty sure it said 6 last night......I could and have been wrong in the past, that's life

No matter-
Now it is a 10 % chance of being a failure?
OK.
I just don't see how my post is all the stupid with those odds.
A 10% chance is a huge chunk of cash If you are the chosen one to bite the apple.

Keep in mind the IMS is not the only gamble!
Next .
As for me as I said- if I were to buy one I would buy it betting it would fail.
This gives me leverage in all directions
Keep in mind whom Said this -that they are safe BET-
A CAR SALESMEN.
aRGH arGH arGH

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Pretty sure it said 6 last night......I could and have been wrong in the past, that's life

No matter-
Now it is a 10 % chance of being a failure?
OK.
I just don't see how my post is all the stupid with those odds.
A 10% chance is a huge chunk of cash If you are the chosen one to bite the apple.

Keep in mind the IMS is not the only gamble!
Next .
As for me as I said- if I were to buy one I would buy it betting it would fail.
This gives me leverage in all directions
Keep in mind whom Said this -that they are safe BET-
A CAR SALESMEN.
aRGH arGH arGH

Please do a little informed research and get back to us. They made thousands of these cars. Per the class action lawsuit that centered on the 2000-2004 996 the failure rate was between 5-8%. It does happen but it’s very rare. But I do agree that if you buy any European sports car it would be wise to have an emergency fund set back just in case.

It’s really hard to decipher your messages, they read like a ransom note. But are you referring to me as a car dealer? Better update your stalker profile there buddy that was years ago and basically a hobby, I lead military aerospace programs for a living.

[DWBOX2000]

Never thought this would take a turn to the great IMS bearing debate.

Thanks all. I'll keep you posted.

[afterburn 549]

I have never insulted you in your life and yet you have hurled at least three at me over a car .
How mature.
Defensive much?
Perhaps you should go to bed and try again as it is not that important to get that angry over.
I do know these models have problems with IMS and other issues.
They all seem to have a list of squwaks that jump up and a few other nuances.
But I am not going to call you stupid, a Ransome note writer, and etc over it all.
I am pretty sure you dabbled in car sales for a while as a hobby.
You never sold cars for a hobby?
Then My mistake.


For further information-
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a9982953/why-the-996-generation-porsche-911-will-never-be-collectible/

[Nickshu]

All of the weight of a turbo without the turbo and still has the bore scoring issues (and IMS but that's easily fixed). If it were me I would get a Turbo to get basically the same layout plus a Mezger engine.