All Things Aviation Related

[dlockhart]

[Brian 162]

Pod was on sale. I’m hooked.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by astrochex

For those with spare change and hangar space https://cowboystatedaily.com/2025/09/27/big-horn-countys-selling-real-vintage-aircraft-for-25-starting-bids/

That's cool! My dad flew C119s in Korea!

[JavaBrewer]

So strangely there is no mention of the helicopter that went down in Huntington Beach. I know there are educated rotary wing folks here. So asking what went wrong there?

[Scott Douglas]

From the video's I've seen of it going down, I'd 'guess' it had a tail rotor failure of some sort.
I went down to the beach today and took these pictures of the wreck. It is about 100 yards from where I usually park when I take my bike down there to ride the beach trail.

[Zeke]

Flying helos close to the ground at the beach is not a good idea in my thinking. Lots of seagulls low-soaring the onshore breeze. I don't know that this happened, but a bird strike of any kind on the tail rotor is not good.

Waiting for Seahawk.

[KNS]

From the video it does look like a tail rotor failure. I've only seen one video and it's difficult to tell if there is a tail rotor attached to the aircraft. Maybe someone has seen some better footage.

I had a tail rotor failure in '93 in a Hughes/Schweizer 300. The locking nut from the transmission output shaft connecting the TR drive shaft came undone. For a split second you're thinking "this has to be something else". I continued with my autorotation and thankfully landed upright. I did spread the skids though - she sat a little closer to the ground after that.

[A930Rocket]

That helo crash was a close call. Watching a video, I thought it was the tail rotor not moving, but it was the sync of the camera shutter speed.

The tail rotor did seem to go in the opposite direction, but maybe that was air as the helo spun?

[A930Rocket]

Something flew off the tail rotor as it started spinning.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Waiting for Seahawk.

No need: KNS knows and has had a tail rotor failure!

EEEK!!!

Originally Posted by KNS

I had a tail rotor failure in '93 in a Hughes/Schweizer 300. The locking nut from the transmission output shaft connecting the TR drive shaft came undone. For a split second you're thinking "this has to be something else". I continued with my autorotation and thankfully landed upright. I did spread the skids though - she sat a little closer to the ground after that.

^^^ That is awesome, truly.

The only thing I would say about the recent accident is that the trees saved a large "yard sale" on helo parts. Remarkable.

[rsrguy]

222?

[Gus Berges]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Flying helos close to the ground at the beach is not a good idea in my thinking. Lots of seagulls low-soaring the onshore breeze. I don't know that this happened, but a bird strike of any kind on the tail rotor is not good.

Waiting for Seahawk.

A friend of mine was being piloted on his Bell Jet Ranger (25+ years ago...) and a buzzard flew through the windshield immediately killing the pilot. A family member also died that day. My friend survived and went onto getting his helicopter pilots license.

[john70t]

There are a few GA winged aircraft that employ a parachute.
Among them the vaulted SR-22 and the versatile ICON A-5 (which i think changed ownership recently):
https://simpleflying.com/5-types-of-planes-that-can-use-a-parachute/


So why not helicopters?

Should be easy to stick one on top of a mast.
There would need to be an anti-tangle plus anti-spin element added.
They do it with heavy radar on a few models (the Mil version of civie Jet Ranger for one)

[edgemar]

Is yanking on the collective the right thing to do when you lose a tail rotor? What is the procedure..if any?

[john70t]

AFAIK that makes it worse. Adding more torque increases spin of chassis-body.

KNS did it..perfect..and is still with us.

Different problem:
Main rotor/engine/trans failure with controlled autorotation to ground.
I failed this many times in flight sim.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by edgemar

Is yanking on the collective the right thing to do when you lose a tail rotor?

Not recommended.

Originally Posted by edgemar

What is the procedure..if any?

It depends.

Helicopters exist in two aviation worlds: Vertical (hover up to and including forward airspeed out of the dead man's curve) flight and horizontal flight.

The procedures for loss of tail rotor authority or thrust really depend on where and how the helicopter is operating. It also depends on the configuration of the helicopter.

In KNS' situation, he was in a helicopter with skids. Again, eek. I am so impressed.

The H-60 above 70 knots forward airspeed can maintain stable flight even with a loss of tail rotor and the procedures for a "run on landing above 70 knots" are practiced because the H-60 has wheels. Pretty simple stuff. No way a helo with skids can do that.

Loss of tail rotor thrust hovering over the back of a Frigate in an H-60? The emergency procedures just give you something to do before swim call.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by edgemar

Is yanking on the collective the right thing to do when you lose a tail rotor? What is the procedure..if any?

It depends on when the tail rotor failure occurs.

Yanking up on the collective increases power and torque. Since you've lost your anti-torque drive (the tail rotor) you do not want to pull up on the collective - that would exacerbate the situation.
If you're hovering five feet off the ground the usual procedure is to close the throttle. The spin you would be experiencing would be reduced and you would immediately begin to settle to the ground. You could also then pull up on the collective to cushion your landing, depends on the situation. This is all happening far quicker than it takes to explain it, you really have to act quickly.

In cruise flight, it also depends. If you're flying along at 100+ knots and you lose your tail rotor, the vertical fin acts like the feathers on an arrow and will help you keep your nose pointed somewhat straight (though probably with some yaw). At some point you will have to close the throttle and enter an autorotation to put the aircraft on the ground without power.

If you're flying along at altitude at a slower speed, lets say during take off or landing you have to enter an auto immediately but if you're too low and too slow you may be kind of screwed. There simply may not be enough altitude or airspeed for a successful auto.

When my TR failed I was on takeoff a couple hundred feet high and about 50 knots. My autorotation was a spiraling right turn but controllable. Any slower at time of failure and I would have been SOL.

The Bell 222 in the video was too low and slow for any kind of successful autorotation. He also lost the actual TR from the aircraft. That changes the center of gravity of the aircraft making a bad situation even worse as far as controllability.

The one thing the pilot could have done (and he may have tried it) is close the throttle and pull up on the collective just before impact. Pulling up on the collective (with no power to the rotor system) uses the last bit of energy in the rotor to cushion the landing.

Edit: Just read Seahawk's post - yes, wheels vs skids would make for a different procedure in some cases and many helicopters have may have small variations of what I wrote.

[DRONE]

appears to have lost a pitchlink, shed a single blade first, then the massive TR imbalance then released the remaining blade, then the part of the TR gearbox sat proudly in the car park. Possibly. Maybe. The massive kinetic energy in this wide chorded 222 blades probably helped reduce the injuries to the crew, although conversely, may have added to the injuries on those watching.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/8a2027c5-4a9f-47ab-8b2c-3217e92f562c/7ac374a1-4e9d-4016-8de3-8841296faed4.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds
picture of Tail Rotor

[Cajundaddy]

A hard day when the tail rotor grenades. Best wishes to the survivors of this crash.

[herr_oberst]

I didn't realize there was video of the crash in Huntington Beach!