Muscle vs. sports car?

[pwd72s]

Toyota Supra vs. Mustang GT. Drag strip and road course time. Posted because I was thinking I might like a Supra after taking Cindy's Camry to the local Toyota dealership for a 10,000 mile service. They had a couple of them in the showroom, both buttoned up. Lots of curves, some attractive, some not...but I was interested enough to do some net research. Oh, noted the stickers both had "additional dealer markup" of $5K. Peering into the cockpit, it did appear to be tight with the Supra..that somebody 5'10" or under would be more comfortable than me...

The muscle car thread got me wondering. I know my '65 Pontiac GTO had bad brakes & poor handling compared to a '65 true sports car. But..today's "muscle" does better. Even with iit's antiquated stick axle, my '09 Mustang Bullitt corners pretty damned well in stock trim. The new ones with IRS probably do better.

Anyway, to the comparison video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zASl44yR1M0

[masraum]

For the lazy among us

[masraum]

I haven't watched the video yet, but I'd probably rather have a modern mustang to the Supra.

Modern muscle cars aren't as limited as they once were. It seems that a modern mustang or camaro can be a very competent handler and stopper as well as going like stink. That's what I've always liked. When I had my old '65 Impala, I drove it like it was a sports car. I took corners as fast as I could manage. I dreamt of upgraded suspension and brakes. I'd still like to have something old and American from probably '64-72 as a project with a resto-mod thing, brakes, suspension, wheels and tires and a modern fuel injected motor.

I just got far enough into the video to hear "they both have automatic transmissions." Bleh!

Yes, I see a place for an automatic. For a car that I primarily drive myself or drive for pleasure, I want a manual. For a car that I drive with the missus, then give me a good modern automatic and I'm fine.

[id10t]

[pwd72s]

The not so dirty little secret with Mustangs is that the new 10 speed automatic easily beats the manual through the quarter mile. The Supra comes only with an 8 speed automatic.

Now that father time has blessed me with a snapped tendon in my left foot, clutch work has become problematic for me, especially in stop & go traffic. If that hadn't happened, I'd be happier with the manual in my Mustang. Now I'm thinking about trading for an automatic..

Sure understand what you mean about the pleasures a manual can yield tho. If I go the automatic route, it'll be the first time in my life I haven't had a car with a manual.

The video of the old Mustang and Minis playing was fun...but has little to do with today's cars.

(edit) But if you think an old stick axle car can't be set up to handle, you might watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBRPy8n2L3E

[unclebilly]

The supra is a BMW Z4 with a Toyota badge on it. It would be fun to own under warranty. After that, I doubt you would enjoy Toyota reliability...

[masraum]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

The not so dirty little secret with Mustangs is that the new 10 speed automatic easily beats the manual through the quarter mile. The Supra comes only with an 8 speed automatic.

I think that's generally the case with automatics. Many, most drag racers use auto-trans for speed and consistency.

Sure understand what you mean about the pleasures a manual can yield tho. If I go the automatic route, it'll be the first time in my life I haven't had a car with a manual.

I've had auto trans a few times. When you're poor, you get the best car that you can afford that does what you need, and sometimes that's a manual and sometimes that's an auto.

(edit) But if you think an old stick axle car can't be set up to handle, you might watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBRPy8n2L3E

Absolutely, they can be made to handle.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by masraum

I think that's generally the case with automatics. Many, most drag racers use auto-trans for speed and consistency.

My friend George Montgomery was an auto transmission pioneer in drag racing. He told me the story of doing development work on the OHC 429 at Indianapolis with Ford engineers. They watched him driving and said, "You look awfully busy in there, why don't you try a full automatic?" They asked him what RPM he wanted it to shift at and built him a C6 with two speeds that shifted at 8,800 rpm.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

The video of the old Mustang and Minis playing was fun...but has little to do with today's cars.

True, but it is a very good visual example of the general differences between sports cars and muscle cars.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

T

The muscle car thread got me wondering. I know my '65 Pontiac GTO had bad brakes & poor handling compared to a '65 true sports car. ]

Ha! I had a '69 Chevelle that went like stink ...in a straight line but the durn thing tried to monkey roll every time I went round a turn.

[herr_oberst]

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/vintage-reviews/vintage-car-driver-review-1964-pontiac-gto-the-ultimate-ringer/

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

The supra is a BMW Z4 with a Toyota badge on it. It would be fun to own under warranty. After that, I doubt you would enjoy Toyota reliability...

Yup, total bastardization of a legendary nameplate. Damn shame. I would never consider the BMW Supra. But I would love to have a PP2 Mustang GT with Recaros and a stick.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/vintage-reviews/vintage-car-driver-review-1964-pontiac-gto-the-ultimate-ringer/

That was a fun bit of automotive press Hanky-Panky wasn't it???

[wayner]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

The supra is a BMW Z4 with a Toyota badge on it. It would be fun to own under warranty. After that, I doubt you would enjoy Toyota reliability...

Maybe I just got lucky with my 2012 five series but even I have been pleasantly surprised by its reliability

[ckelly78z]

While the Supra is cool, and I love inline 6 motors, i'll take the new GT Mustang any day of the week. I have already owned a 1985, a 1995, and a 2004 GT Mustangs (current DD), and will be looking for a 2011-2014 GT with the Coyote motor soon.

I have given up on manual transmissions because of having a shattered pelvis a few years back, and in slow traffic, I start getting cramped up, and aching.

[JackDidley]

I cant believe how far the new Mustangs have come. The stick axle is gone and you can get a 2.3 ecoboost with 330 horsepower. I would still have to have the coyote but 330 HP from a 2.3 aint bad.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by id10t

True, but it is a very good visual example of the general differences between sports cars and muscle cars.

You video depicts what was then...this thread is about what is now.

[sugarwood]

That 1964 cover looks like The Downhill @ Limerock

[Steve Carlton]

Did they make the Bullitt with an automatic?

There's such a wide range of cars that fall into the sport-muscle range. The Mazda RF always comes to mind if I'm thinking about handling and economy. There's the Jaguar F-types (I like the idea of an I-Pace), Boxsters, the list is endless. I've got a Challenger 392, which is not a sports car at all, but on a smooth cloverleaf on/off ramp sticks like glue.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Did they make the Bullitt with an automatic?

There's such a wide range of cars that fall into the sport-muscle range. The Mazda RF always comes to mind if I'm thinking about handling and economy. There's the Jaguar F-types (I like the idea of an I-Pace), Boxsters, the list is endless. I've got a Challenger 392, which is not a sports car at all, but on a smooth cloverleaf on/off ramp sticks like glue.

I wish, but no...Bullitt model Mustangs are all only manual transmission cars. I really do enjoy the extras the Bullitt package offers over the regular GT...and you can't get it all in a GT through the options list.