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I just tried detecting a small powerful magnet through 1/4 aluminium with a small compass, can easily point to it from 4 inches away. Pretty low tec but better then getting arrested trying to buy a cobalt 60 source to shoot a X ray, LOL.
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Ultrasound could probably give you a decent enough image for what you’re trying to accomplish. I hear what you’re saying about the x-ray detector positioning, but I don’t think that’d be an issue. There are portable X-rays that are strong enough to penetrate through very dense/thick materials and could penetrate through a section of fiberglass, wood, and stainless sheet metal. Take an image from the top down to get your cross-car and fore/aft location, and then an image from the side view to get your up/down position. |
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Okay, so I just spent some time in the garage. The tool of the day? High powered magnet!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/toZ6XEMX_00" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> -Wayne |
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-Wayne |
I did build a unit years ago to hold a x ray head and a detector, I could check if it is still in use. It was intended for medical imaging but should work. It was bolted to a gamma knife though, could be a problem getting over the border.
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If you are drilling into a fibreglass wheel well couldn't you use a tank cutter to make a large enough hole to facilitate easy access to the pipe connection, and glass it up afterwards?
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There is a way to use some basic carpentry tools and a little measuring and layout work to determine a point directly below the outlet that would be a good starting point for an investigative access hole to be drilled. It would take an hour for me to type it all but if you want to try it, let me know and I'll work on it.
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Local help available
First time forum post.
Was sent here by fellow gear-head driving buddy, because of my boat repair and fiberglassing experience. First: Really cool project, love the look and the history behind it. Second: Boatbuilding 101. Polyester resin (without a doubt), chopped strand mat, urethane foam and wood. So the exploratory surgery tool here is a 1.25 inch hole saw, but one that has grinding grit on it, not teeth. This makes small enough holes for visibility, that can then be easily re-glassed back over, and the circles are small enough (and strategically placed) so the don’t effect structural integrity. OK, I hate this part because it feels so immodest. I have been doing fiberglass repairs as a tinkering hobby for 15-20 years. I work as a Manufacturing Engineer for a major aerospace company, specializing in Composite fab and repair. I have taught a Composite fab shop class at a local SoCal junior college (wet layup and prepress) since 2001, so have lots of sources and connections. I would love to come by (safety protocols of course) and take a look and help on a volunteer basis, cause this is such a cool and unusual project. (I cut my teeth on aircooled VW’s but have moved on to Datsun roadster canyon carver) When I learn how to Private Message I will send along contact info. I commute daily from Seal Beach to El Segundo, so am around in the area regularly. Sorry for the long post. Fergus O |
Use a water level to determine elevation of tank outlet
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Wayne, Since the outlet of the tank shown in the video is on the vertical wall of the tank, use a water level to determine the exact elevation of the tank outlet at the area you circled in red on your photo. The one tank shown in the video shows that the line from the tank to the pump comes from below the tank. One of your photos appears to show the other tank feed comes to a pump in the engine bay. Is that correct? If so this would not work on that tank. Either way consider using a water level. Very simple but is accurate and handy. To get the centerline elevation of the tank, fill the tank to the center line of the tank outlet. Water level explained: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_level_(device) |
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The datum line should be the centerline of the tank sending unit opening, or some other reference point. |
He doesn’t need a laser level, he just needs a framing square, a tape measure, a plumb bob, some string and a sharpie.
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Gotta love Amazon, I still don't see how they can do it. This was $100 with a random $30 coupon at checkout. Ordered last night at about 7:30PM. On it's way here today. It will probably be here before I even get my newspaper today! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831059.jpg This thing got really good reviews, and the reviews span a year or two, so they are not likely to be fake... -Wayne |
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831215.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831215.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831215.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831215.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831215.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831215.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831215.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610831215.jpg |
The real big clue is the high powered magnet is sticking right under the spot where I would imagine a hose clamp to be. I did an additional test where I took a hose clamp and put it on the inside of the fender and took the magnet and tested it on the outside, and it felt similar / the same. So, I'm very hopeful that the connection that I'm looking for is right there.
Again, I will do this later on today: - Clip the gas line on the left side of the car (no going back after that). - Thread a pipe cleaner / wire through the gas line and into the tank. I will look inside the tank to see the pipe cleaner come through. - Then I will thread some string through the hose, so that one end of the string will be sticking out of the outlet in the tank, and one end will be out of the other side of the hose. This will allow me to "keep the path intact" on the current hose in case there is difficulty threading something in the future. - Then I will stick the camera down that hole (I hope the radiator is not in the way, the area on the left side of the car seems to have a bit less access than the right side - perhaps I should do the right side first, although that outlet port appears to be clogged with old varnish / gas). - The camera images should give more clarity on the path and what's in there. A few smart people suggested something I hadn't thought of before. Just forget about the gas tanks on the sides and install a larger fuel cell / racing style one in the rear trunk. That's not a bad idea, and we have that in our Mercedes 190 SLR Roadster, but I would like to keep this Probe as original as I can at this moment. Something like this: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610832227.JPG Also thank you if you sent me an email - I literally have about 35 long emails in my inbox, and I will respond to every single one, probably after I do this new camera inspection... Thx, Wayne |
i didnt read much but id cut the line and shove it in you should be able to get somewhere like that. As for an access hole is there no way to get at it from the cabin down low? Then you dont have to mess with body work or questionable access at the wheel wells
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I'm as perplexed about this as anyone. However, after reading about the wire/string idea, I thought I'd share this: when rewiring an old lamp or light fixture with a lot of curves in the tubing supporting the sockets, I use a long lamp chain and a vacuum to get a pull wire in there.
It's already been mentioned that a flexible cable like a bicycle brake cable will have the strength to pull. The lamp chain will break with not much force but it will go around some pretty tight and complicated lamp designs. There are many lubes for these projects so I'll leave it at that. |
Yes, it is confusing. There's no access from the cockpit - it's one solid / melded form of wood.
Here's a drawing from the rear: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610836633.jpg -Wayne |
Can you put a bulkhead fitting in a more accessible area and run a new line? Something that would also be serviceable later. Near the filler or sender?
Or are you trying to maintain originality? |
Both. Since there's no place to access the line, I will have to put some sort of access hole in there eventually...
-Wayne |
Well, I just spent two hours with the new camera poking around. On the right side, I found a tiny 1" access hole under the compartment for the switch, which I was able to stick the camera down. I can see the tanks, but I cannot see any hoses. Speaking of hoses, I cut them (they basically fell apart) and I was not able to shove them into the car and then stick the camera through the hole - the remains of the old hose was there.
I think an access cut will have to be made on each side of the fender in order to get in there and get enough room to work. I don't think merely cutting the fiberglass from below will work because maneuvering the fuel line in that area from below will be very difficult. At least I have a very good idea now where the fuel hoses are located, even though I haven't been able to see any of them. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610863928.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610863928.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610863928.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610863928.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610863928.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610863928.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610863928.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610863928.jpg |
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high price safer solution
make tank bags to fit in the existing top hole or bigger as needed that will block the bottom hole and old line use a submerged fuel pump and top exit fuel line along with a level sender all in one unit I have removed and replaced such units in GM and volvo cars so common and eazy to get bags will be custom and the major expense but much safer |
Is there wood between the wheel well and tank?
I think I'd take a deep breath, drill a small hole in the wheel well, and scope it out. |
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610915466.jpg -Wayne |
If you put the car on a 3 axis rotisserie, then pour in tank seal and slosh it all around.....
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/i5VemcQNrQg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> Sorry Wayne, just kidding......that's all I got. |
:) Funny!
-Wayne |
Wayne, Have you considered a Walabot DIY stud finder? An attachment for your smartphone. I've been amazed to see the wiring and plumbing inside of drywalls.
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If it were me, I'd do a little more measuring and get a better idea of where the outlet is before cutting anything. You need to consider how you will need to access the old and new hoses and how you'll get them in and out and loosen/tighten the clamps. I'm thinking the outlet will be around a foot forward of the wheel well, like in this area circled in yellow in this photo.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610919067.jpg |
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm 99.9% sure it's not there, because I can look inside the tank through the fuel tank sender and measure where it is roughly. It's on the far wall (back) of the tank at the bottom. More like where the red circle is in this photo:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610925810.jpg On the yellow car, it certainly looks like the remanufactured tanks that they put in have it empty out the bottom, but not on this tank - it's definitely in the side. Here is a new photo with the new camera: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610926408.jpg This is shot from inside of the tank facing the rear. From this angle: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610926433.jpg Here is a photo of the edges of the tank superimposed on that angle to sortof show where the rear of the tank is located with respect to the side of the car. I'm not sure if this is clear... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610926675.JPG -Wayne |
More thinking outside the box....
1/4" x 18" drill bit. Drill from the inside out? through the fitting? :eek::eek: https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-1-4-in-x-18-in-Installer-Drill-Bit-DIB1050/313022473 |
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-Wayne |
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1610927923.jpg
Is the red circle the filler? Can you plug the line from the inside (blue) and drop a new feed (green) next to the filler? |
Glad you checked inside the tank and found out that they had built your tanks differently from those on the yellow car. That makes it a no-brainer where to put the access panel.
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Yes, one could theoretically do that, but there's no way to get that line then back into the engine compartment (through the fire wall). There's no big access hole there. Plus, you'd have to plug the hole from the inside (very difficult), and then that might leak later on. Good suggestion, but poking a hole in the back to access is probably less painful.
I might drill a small 4mm hole in the back of the left side later on to take a closer look. I'm at the stage now where I have no other options? -Wayne |
Given how small your borescope is, I’d go ahead and drill a hole where you think the outlet is likely to be and see what you get.
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-Wayne |
They do have a lot of uses. I bought one a couple years ago, not super happy with the image quality, but it has solved quite a few problems for me.
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Okay, so I had a drink tonight, and just bit the bullet and drilled a small access hole in the left side fender well. Some news (not sure if it's good or bad). The panel is a thin fiberglass panel - definitely not structural in nature. It definitely sounds different on the left side than the right side though - the left side sounded thin and hollow when tapped on, the right side sounds thick and heavy. As if one side sounds like thin fiberglass and the other side sounds like thick wood.
I stuck the camera into the small access hole and all I can see is foam. The entire chamber has been sealed with that "inner wall" sealing foam. So, at least on the left side, I know what needs to be done now. I need to cut a portion of this thin fiberglass panel out to make an access hole so that I can scrape out the foam and reach the tank connection (on the left side). Presumably, left and right would be the same, but they certainly don't sound that way. I'll cut the panel out with my Dremmel tool and perhaps a hand saw (sometimes more accurate). Then I should be able to reach in there and dig out the foam and actually see the bottom tank connection. Looks like going through the fender well (at least on the left side) is the right thing to do - this is a very thin piece of fiberglass. I'll update tomorrow... -Wayne |
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