Pier and beam house, what to do to protect pipes from freezing

[masraum]

Folks, we've got some crazy, cold weather on the way (~5 days of mostly freezing temps including temps forecast to be as low as 5º).

Our new place is an old P&B based house. From what I understand from the inspectors, the pipes (PVC) under the house are NOT insulated. The seller has a halogen work light in the tiny (dog house sized) pump house that he uses as a heater. Then the sellers advised to have the heat running in the house to keep the crawl-space warmer than the outside air to keep the pipes under the house from freezing. Most of the outdoor spigots have some insulation and plastic on them.

Two of the 4 sides (N and W) of the house have solid tin covering the crawl-space, so that should block most of the wind.

I've also heard "drip the water inside and outside."

I'm planning to go out to the house, probably on Sat, to get the heat going and turn on the work light in the pump house. I'll stay there, probably until Wed, then play it by ear.

I've wondered about getting another work light or two for under the house near the pipes.

I'm pretty new to P&B and worrying about weather like this.
Any other thoughts or recommendations to help safeguard?

The upcoming forecast.
The blue horizontal line is 32º


The Sat and Sun after this the highs are supposed to be ~70º

[Porsche-O-Phile]

It usually takes a couple of days of sub-freezing temps to cold-soak piping to the point where it can really be an risk (larger diameter pipes are less susceptible). If you’re getting five days of marginal temps (cycling between being above and below freezing for a few hours at a time) I wouldn’t worry too much. Hose bibs should be shut off - those fail first. You can put plug-in heat trace on the more vulnerable piping if you think it’s going to be sub-freezing for continuous, uninterrupted periods. An old trick is to use incandescent light bulbs really close to piping / pumps where they can put out just enough heat to get the pipes warm.

Or put a bullet heater in the shed - they’re relatively cheap and can keep it just warm enough without burning through too much kerosene / diesel. I did something similar in a pool house I had (old, uninsulated) at my old house in the northeast years ago. Never had an issue and it just required a full-up every week or so (more if bitterly cold). It had a t-stat on it so I could keep it about 35° in there.

Best of luck.

[GH85Carrera]

At my old house was post and beam, and each winter I blocked off all the vents for under the house. and insulated the pipes with the foam pieces. Most important, I let the water drip in all the sinks and the tub.

With only a few hours below freezing you will be fine if you block off all under house vents.

Our house is nice in that it is a slab, and all the water connections are on inside walls. The garage never gets below 45 degrees as it is insulated.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

It usually takes a couple of days of sub-freezing temps to cold-soak piping to the point where it can really be an risk (larger diameter pipes are less susceptible). If you’re getting five days of marginal temps (cycling between being above and below freezing for a few hours at a time) I wouldn’t worry too much. Hose bibs should be shut off - those fail first. You can put plug-in heat trace on the more vulnerable piping if you think it’s going to be sub-freezing for continuous, uninterrupted periods. An old trick is to use incandescent light bulbs really close to piping / pumps where they can put out just enough heat to get the pipes warm.

Or put a bullet heater in the shed - they’re relatively cheap and can keep it just warm enough without burning through too much kerosene / diesel. I did something similar in a pool house I had (old, uninsulated) at my old house in the northeast years ago. Never had an issue and it just required a full-up every week or so (more if bitterly cold). It had a t-stat on it so I could keep it about 35° in there.

Best of luck.

Thanks

We are looking at ~36 hours of temps between 5º and 25º which seems like that may be enough to freeze the pipes in the crawl-space.

The pump house is very small, like a dog house, and has one of these for heat. I don't think there's room for anything bigger.

The walls have a gap down at the bottom, so I'll probably stuff something under the edges to help keep the heat in. I'm not too worried about that area. I'm more worried about the space under the house. I may get a similar light for under the house. Even if it just helps keep things in the area of the light a few degrees warmer, it seems like it should help.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

At my old house was post and beam, and each winter I blocked off all the vents for under the house. and insulated the pipes with the foam pieces. Most important, I let the water drip in all the sinks and the tub.

With only a few hours below freezing you will be fine if you block off all under house vents.

36 hours with temps dipping into the single digits. Fortunately the west and north sides are solid except for 1 vent on the west side that I'll be blocking. The south and east facing sides are all trellis which is going to make blocking them tough. I probably have some wood so I could block some of it.

[911boost]

As I have learned when hunting with my camper, wind is the biggest issue. There is a reason they skirt everything.

If you can keep the wind out you stand a much better chance of the pipes not freezing.

Having those lights on all the time would scare me. Can you get some milk heaters? Something that is made to do what you are asking it to do.

Something like this:
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/heating-and-cooling/heaters/space-heaters/6167118?store=03279&gclid=CjwKCAiA65iBBhB-EiwAW253W6ASXkaIOS5nyTqAI1EkmMQoLnjs0OH3k6G4tTOqYN mlZQ5E1kOdahoCk64QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[unclebilly]

Walled in underneath and insulated. 2 forced air heat ducts dumping heat into crawl space.

Never had an issue to -44C.

[1990C4S]

Leave the water trickling. It won't freeze.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 911boost

As I have learned when hunting with my camper, wind is the biggest issue. There is a reason they skirt everything.

If you can keep the wind out you stand a much better chance of the pipes not freezing.

Having those lights on all the time would scare me. Can you get some milk heaters? Something that is made to do what you are asking it to do.

Something like this:
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/heating-and-cooling/heaters/space-heaters/6167118?store=03279&gclid=CjwKCAiA65iBBhB-EiwAW253W6ASXkaIOS5nyTqAI1EkmMQoLnjs0OH3k6G4tTOqYN mlZQ5E1kOdahoCk64QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I'll check, but I doubt there will be any heaters available anywhere around here right now.

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Walled in underneath and insulated. 2 forced air heat ducts dumping heat into crawl space.

Never had an issue to -44C.

I'm not sure I've got time to do that, and my heat is a heat pump with electric emergency heat backup, so I don't have a ton of heat to spare for under the house or getting the crawl space sealed in the next 36 hours.

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Leave the water trickling. It won't freeze.

Yep, that's on the agenda, although I wonder about it's efficacy at temps as low as the single digits.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Leave the water trickling. It won't freeze.

Ummm, no.

[island911]

Is there snow on the ground? - Snow is a good insulator. building a berm against the sides will keep out the negative temp's.

[911boost]

Run to HD and get a few sheets of that foam board and cut it up and put it against the trellis from the inside with a few zip ties, that will stop the wind and not cost much..

[cabmandone]

Just let the faucets drip.

You can buy heat tape if you're really worried about it freezing.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Ummm, no.

He's in Tejas not Alberta. If he lets a faucet at the greatest distance from the tank drip..or let a couple drip. he'll be fine.

[bivenator]

masraum, I thought you were in the downtown/Alllen Parkway area. Looks like a Heights house in the pictures.

I got similar concerns as yours so am following along for tips from our northern neighbors.

I do think running the faucets is good advice for our situation.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by island911

Is there snow on the ground? - Snow is a good insulator. building a berm against the sides will keep out the negative temp's.

No, no snow here, and I'm not really expecting much but maybe some flurries. I'm from Florida, the environment here is similar. I know that in some situations in FL, they will run the sprinklers on plants and/or citrus because the ice that coats them will act as an insulator. If I thought that I could manage it, I'd swipe one of the rolls of hay from an adjacent field and stack that everywhere to insulate things.

Originally Posted by 911boost

Run to HD and get a few sheets of that foam board and cut it up and put it against the trellis from the inside with a few zip ties, that will stop the wind and not cost much..

Good call!

Originally Posted by bivenator

masraum, I thought you were in the downtown/Alllen Parkway area. Looks like a Heights house in the pictures.

I got similar concerns as yours so am following along for tips from our northern neighbors.

I do think running the faucets is good advice for our situation.

Yes, we've been living in an apt in the Montrose area for the past 6+ years, but in Dec we bought a 100yo house 80+ miles down I-10 west from downtown.

[Evans, Marv]

Originally Posted by 911boost

Run to HD and get a few sheets of that foam board and cut it up and put it against the trellis from the inside with a few zip ties, that will stop the wind and not cost much..

I was thinking this but 911boost beat me to it. I also might add some black sheet vinyl with it to get by until a later season when you can decide on something more permanent.

[bivenator]

Montrose to Columbus. Big switch, I am looking to leave Katy and go further west also. Working at 10 and 99 now which gives me some latitude to go out further. Looks like a great spot for you, any acreage?

Wrap the pipes and run the water. Say prayers.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by bivenator

Montrose to Columbus. Big switch, I am looking to leave Katy and go further west also. Working at 10 and 99 now which gives me some latitude to go out further. Looks like a great spot for you, any acreage?

Wrap the pipes and run the water. Say prayers.

A little land, almost 6 acres. It was part of ~33.5 acres, but the sellers kept the other 27+. We're actually in Borden (Weimar zip code) so between Columbus and Weimar. I've been working from home for about a year, and there's no end in site. We're moving in permanently towards the end of March and will probably live there for a year or so. The plan is for this to mostly be a weekend place. I was hoping that this winter would be mild so I'd have some time to insulate pipes and get things ready for next winter. The universe had other plans.

We've been there every weekend but one since we bought it. I love being out and away from everything. The only thing that's really going to take some adjustment is grocery shopping. We're 1/4 - 1/2 mile from a Kroger and Whole Foods. We've got several other HEB, Kroger and Whole Foods within 3 miles. If I forget one item at the store or one of us gets a craving, I can go and be back in 10-15 mins, max. The groceries stores that I've been to out there are VERY limited in the items that they have that we are used to. I think we'll end up shopping in town from time to time and having a very stocked fridge (maybe 2).

[bivenator]

That sir, is exactly what I am after. Good for you. Enjoy.