Being poor is very expensive.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

That is always the view of people who were raised in better circumstances. A LOT of people are born into poverty with no real chance of success, starting with basic nutrition and ending at access to a proper education.

Can it be overcome? Sure, on occasion, but the odds are not equal and a good work ethic doesn't level the playing field.

While our education system isn't anything to brag about, everyone wanting an education can get an education. There is equal access to an education. What you make of that opportunity helps determine your path forward.

And yes a good work ethic does help level the playing field. If you have a good work ethic you're more likely to take full advantage of the education you received.

Basic nutrition: That's what SNAP is there for.

The tools are all there. Making the most of them, or not, is the problem.

Believing what you wrote helps keep others down. Tell someone they can't for long enough and pretty soon they believe they can't because of.....

[GH85Carrera]

At my last high school (Junior and Senior year) the school was 80% black. Like every school we had the dopers, the jocks, the nerds, & geeks and the dropout "cool" kids. There was one of my friends that was black. He said all his friends kept bullying him because he wanted to get an education, and was not into drugs, or just hanging out. He was busy studying. He made straight As. He said his neighborhood and all his brothers and two sisters were just learning how to get on welfare ASAP and called him names because he wanted to go to college and get an education.

So yea, he had a tough time with his own family and friends accepting he wanted to work at getting ahead in life and not just live in the projects and on welfare.

[aschen]

I would say the data sample set is biased as much by "people who buy this type of insurance" as "people who are poor".

[fintstone]

I was born poor and entered the workforce as poor...during a debilitating recession. My family never took a handout...ever. Neither have I. My family does pretty well now...all it took was a lifetime of hard work and some good choices. That is the beauty of this country. Where one starts does not dictate where they finish.

[sammyg2]

Every one of us heard the same things growing up:

Mind your manners.
Listen to your parents and teachers.
Pay attention in school.
Get good grades.
Stay out of trouble.
Don't use drugs.
Don't get pregnant out of wedlock/don't get a girl pregnant out of wedlock.
Get a good education so you can get a good job.

These were not secrets. They were instructions for success. And we all heard them. Over and over.

Some of us listened and followed those rules, and got stuck supporting those who didn't.
Decisions and actions should have consequences so they can guide others down the right path by example. That was the entire herd benefits.

bleeding heart good intentions might make you FEEL better, but they usually do more harm than good in the big picture.
What happens when you provide a safety net? The high-wire act knows they can fall and won't get hurt. So they fall more. No big deal.

What happens when they know there isn't a safety net and there will be dire consequences for screwing up? They straighten up and fly right. They try harder.

IOW what happens when a girl with no education, no job, no means of self-support gets knocked up for the 4th or 5th time?
NOTHING except she gets another raise.


You really wanna help? You really want to make things better?
Take away the safety nets and teach the kids about consequences. THEN teach them what good looks like, show them that they can make it, teach them HOW to be a success instead of a failure.
But most of all, STOP making up excuses that tell them they can't be anything but poor.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Every one of us heard the same things growing up:

Mind your manners.
Listen to your parents and teachers.
Pay attention in school.
Get good grades.
Stay out of trouble.
Don't use drugs.
Don't get pregnant out of wedlock/don't get a girl pregnant out of wedlock.
Get a good education so you can get a good job.

These were not secrets. They were instructions for success. And we all heard them. Over and over.

Some of us listened and followed those rules, and got stuck supporting those who didn't.
Decisions and actions should have consequences so they can guide others down the right path by example. That was the entire herd benefits.

bleeding heart good intentions might make you FEEL better, but they usually do more harm than good in the big picture.
What happens when you provide a safety net? The high-wire act knows they can fall and won't get hurt. So they fall more. No big deal.

What happens when they know there isn't a safety net and there will be dire consequences for screwing up? They straighten up and fly right. They try harder.

IOW what happens when a girl with no education, no job, no means of self-support gets knocked up for the 4th or 5th time?
NOTHING except she gets another raise.


You really wanna help? You really want to make things better?
Take away the safety nets and teach the kids about consequences. THEN teach them what good looks like, show them that they can make it, teach them HOW to be a success instead of a failure.
But most of all, STOP making up excuses that tell them they can't be anything but poor.

What's a bit scary is when the highwire act has been doing their act with a super safety net for years, and they have gotten to where they just jump off of the high wire because the safety net is more comfortable and familiar.

If you were to then remove the safety net, things could/would get ugly fast.

[Bill Douglas]

Give a person a fish and you'll feed them for a day.

Teach a person how to fish and they'll spend the money on tattoos.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I just remember so many morning dragging my ass out of bed and going to work. Day after day. I would see a lot of the people I worked with have the Monday Morning one day flu. Lots of them smoked a pack or two of cigarettes, and went out drinking often and certainly on Friday nights. I was busy working a second job. I missed a lot of parties, but no paydays.

I vividly remember trying to figure out what utility to pay and which to put off for a week until payday and that sucked. It is nice to have all my utilities and bills set up on automatic pay. I never write checks, or have to do a dang thing but make sure my account has plenty of money in it for my needs. It is a much more comfortable way to live. All those missed parties are paying off.

The bike shop I worked in paid us on Saturday as when they paid on Friday, people missed worked on Saturday. That was long before I was there.

Originally Posted by*Racerbvd*

Well, it still boils down to personal choices and work ethic.

That is always the view of people who were raised in better circumstances. A LOT of people are born into poverty with no real chance of success, starting with basic nutrition and ending at access to a proper education.

Can it be overcome? Sure, on occasion, but the odds are not equal and a good work ethic doesn't level the playing field.

__________________

Actually, there are a lot of people who have overcome those obstacles, I grew up with several.
Bad home life, no real Money, but one thing several (not all of them) did was join the military. Rich or poor, doesn't matter, they build people from nothing to accomplish a lot. I am sure many here have come up that way. As long as people keep making excuses for bad behavior and rewarding it, things will continue to decline. Is the military right for everyone, no, but it is amazing how many when given the choice of jail or military chose the latter and came out as strong, solid citizens.
My Father grew up in Depression Era Brooklyn, and that never stopped him.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Give a person a fish and you'll feed them for a day.

Teach a person how to fish and they'll spend the money on tattoos.

ROFLMAO!

So is that why Vash is DIY gluing on the kayak, he can't afford to have it done because he's spending all of his money on tats?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Give a person a fish and you'll feed them for a day.

Teach a person how to fish and they'll spend the money on tattoos.

Beautiful.

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Every one of us heard the same things growing up:

Agreed with everything you posted.

Human nature has not changed, never will. The organizing principles of society are inviolate.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by masraum

What's a bit scary is when the highwire act has been doing their act with a super safety net for years, and they have gotten to where they just jump off of the high wire because the safety net is more comfortable and familiar.

If you were to then remove the safety net, things could/would get ugly fast.

Maybe we could give them a sooper-dooper extra comfy safety net. Then we'd never have to worry about running out of high wire acts, they'd be lined up around the block to get into that profession.

[KFC911]

If yer poor, poor, and pitiful .... $ing !

Lawd have mercy....

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Called the company and she had $20k left in coverage (she had only ever made the min. payment) and the face amount was declining fast. She cashed out for $4k, then had nothing and was too old to get anything else. "

How does one go from having $20k of coverage
to nothing left
after cashing out $4k ?
Why it is not $16k?

20 - 4 = 16

Sounds like total con artist bull**** to me.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Ran into a really painful one today. The woman was hard to pin down - either mentally ill or stupid beyond belief. I was starting out from behind when I had to call her to come unlock her front gate. She said she didn't know who I was and might not want to meet. I reminded her who I was and that we had set an appt. less than 24 hrs. ago. She came out, was the nicest lady in the world, invited me in, told me to make myself at home, turned the lights up, offered me water, etc.

She said she had a policy that was 11 or so yrs old, she was paying $109/mo, but didn't know anything else. I called the company and got all the info. She'd had it for seven yrs. and it had a cash value of $2400. I was able to get her the exact same coverage for $42/mo LESS than she was paying and all that $2400 back. COULD NOT CLOSE HER. She said I might be trying to scam her. I told her she was already scammed seven yrs ago and I was trying to fix it and save her a ton of money. And she has a b-day coming up. Her daughter was home, so I asked her to call her daughter into the room. I was sure she was going to kick me out, but she called her daughter in. Daughter was super nice. I explained the situation to her and she looked at her mom and said, "Why aren't you doing this? He's giving you such a better deal. C'mon, Mom." Could not close her. She has to think about it. This is why she's poor.

Why did she contact you (so you claim) when she did not trust you and you could not close her? Why did she call you in the first place ? What was she expecting? Or did you cold call her like a boiler room con artist ?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Why did she contact you (so you claim) when she did not trust you and you could not close her? Why did she call you in the first place ? What was she expecting? Or did you cold call her like a boiler room con artist ?

Sweet! It's Rick Lee's turn to be in the sugarwood barrel.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

How does one go from having $20k of coverage
to nothing left
after cashing out $4k ?
Why it is not $16k?

20 - 4 = 16

Sounds like total con artist bull**** to me.

https://bfy.tw/RUN6

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Why did she contact you (so you claim) when she did not trust you and you could not close her? Why did she call you in the first place ? What was she expecting? Or did you cold call her like a boiler room con artist ?

You haven't got a whole lot of life experience, I guess. Or maybe you just like to stir sheisse up. Assuming it's the former, rather than the later (benefit of a doubt and all that)..., when folks get old, they have a tendency to get forgetful, and often paranoid. And there's no telling how sharp they were to start with.

[cabmandone]

Suga stirrin the chit? Nah... that never happens.

[oldE]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Why did she contact you (so you claim) when she did not trust you and you could not close her? Why did she call you in the first place ? What was she expecting? Or did you cold call her like a boiler room con artist ?

Sugar, either you have reading comprehension problems and/or you don't have any understanding of direct sales.
I suspect the initial contact was made by Rick. A few phone calls led to an appointment which had him at her property.
I have encountered people like her and they always make me thank my lucky stars.

Best
Les

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

How does one go from having $20k of coverage
to nothing left
after cashing out $4k ?
Why it is not $16k?

20 - 4 = 16

Sounds like total con artist bull**** to me.

It was a scam. Those policies are horrible and only ever cause trouble. Reread the first part of that post and that's the kind of policy she (and WD) had. Make the minimum payment and the face amount declines. Takes a while and it will eat away at the cash value too. Face amount and cash value are totally unrelated. No one reads their paperwork, just the initial face amount and monthly payment.