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-   -   Lake Powell down down down (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=1118696)

vash 05-12-2022 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 11690029)
Because California is run by a bunch of profiteering asshats.

50 years since they built any storage.

Epic mismanagement of the resources available.

Pumping water from the East would be an epic infrastructure program that will never happen. All the energy to pump water up could not be recovered as it comes down the other side, because of the laws of thermodynamics
new resoirvors in a region where there is little rain would just be holes in the ground.

we move oil long distances in pipes right? hell, we pipe water over the grapevine. pumping water isnt a problem that is not solvable. i think its just a gravity problem.

i do agree, it is a population problem. but the people still out there having kids endorsed by the powers that be.

IROC 05-12-2022 09:59 AM
This guy has a good discussion on the subject:

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4785

Tobra 05-12-2022 10:11 AM
There is enough water, it is just managed poorly. They focus on residential use, which is 10% of total, to make 100% of their conservation. There could be zero gallons of residential use, and there would still be a shortfall.

speeder 05-12-2022 10:33 AM
So….grow less food?

jyl 05-12-2022 11:53 AM
Here is water use by type in So NV.

https://etfdb.com/esg-channel/between-a-desert-and-a-dry-place-las-vegas-and-water/

46% from houses . . . I think they do have to address that. I'm a fan of market-based mechanisms. Maybe they could tier water rates, with prices rising steeply as consumption increases.

(My initial reactions about this, based on what I know about CA and PNW water usage, were wrong. Unlike in CA, agriculture is not a big user in So NV.)

Yorkie 05-12-2022 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 11690123)
So….grow less food?
Maybe less water hungry crops like almonds. I understand that they consume a huge amount of water for limited calorific benefit. We grow a lot of almonds in CA as I’m sure you are aware.

GH85Carrera 05-12-2022 12:12 PM
One of the facts that astonishes me is 100 years ago the many crooked politicians in Oklahoma all understood water was vital. The city of Oklahoma City started building lakes for drinking water. Right now the city owns a large area of land in SW OKC that they prohibit any construction. It will be a future lake when the current lakes can't keep up.

Right now most all the lakes are at flood stage or above and they are discharging water down the rivers to get to normal levels. We have plenty of water, but processing it all in the dead of summer is the challenge. The city has plans for more water treatment facilities to be built.

It is just astonishing that the forefathers understood the importance of water in Oklahoma, but California just can't figure it out. Without water, the land is useless.

Tervuren 05-12-2022 12:49 PM
I was hoping for something that wasn't so numbers lite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IROC (Post 11690069)
This guy has a good discussion on the subject:

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4785

red-beard 05-12-2022 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IROC (Post 11689971)
I brought this up in another thread, but one solution I have seen floated (pun not intended) is for the creation of a national water grid. Basically a system of pipelines to move water around. It sounds technically daunting, but evidently it's not. And...the cost would not be prohibitive. The problem is primarily political.

The west is drying out and the east is getting more wet. They just raised our local "average rainfall" by 4" per year as it has been increasingly more and more wet here. The last few years, we have ended the calendar year sometimes 10+ inches of rain above normal. 60+ inches of rain per year is not uncommon here anymore. In 2020, our official total was 70.36". You guys out west are welcome to some of this. :)
I would have been happy to donate about 35" of rain to anyone in 2017

red-beard 05-12-2022 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 11690009)
This is absolutely the solution and they had better do it fast. I did not know that anyone is seriously discussing it but I have been talking random people for years that we need a pipeline from places that flood and get too much rain to the places that are too dry. Population trends for decades have been shifting to the desert Southwest of the U.S., (Vegas, Phoenix, etc.), and lack of water will be the number one problem.

My idea was for some huge pipelines and huge reservoirs on both ends. If done right, it could solve two problems at once and be a huge infrastructure project as well, creating a bunch of good paying jobs. It could prevent floods in places like Texas and Louisiana if they had a reservoir system with automatic release valves that opened when the water reached a certain level and dumped it into the pipeline system, (which admittedly would have to be huge), sending all of the excess water into the reservoirs in AZ., NV. and CA. Even if it could not completely end flooding, it would make it less severe and drain the flooded areas quicker. The desert SW would get billions of gallons of fresh water.
Harvey dumped 30 Trillion gallons of water on Texas in 2017. That could have helped...

DerkPerk 05-12-2022 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vash (Post 11690039)

i do agree, it is a population problem. but the people still out there having kids endorsed by the powers that be.
Bingo, Vash

There is also the lack of accountability to saving water. People don’t understand what it takes to get that clean water to your faucet only to send it down the drain, wasted. It drives me nuts to see the water left on running, and I have a private well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

red-beard 05-12-2022 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 11690029)
Pumping water from the East would be an epic infrastructure program that will never happen. All the energy to pump water up could not be recovered as it comes down the other side, because of the laws of thermodynamics
Yes there are losses, but pump hydro is one of the best ways to store energy. In fact, the whole system could be used for massive energy storage with solar and wind power.

EXCEPT

This is a MASSIVE undertaking. The environmental effects massive. The time for the environmental impact studies, very very long. The opposition to building the infrastructure, especially in California, will be massive.

California wants to be 100% electric car, but cannot build the electric lines or the power plants to make the power.

stevej37 05-12-2022 01:07 PM
They had a segment on the news a couple days ago, warning anyone living in CA to be ready for large power outages this summer. I wondered how/why they could say that.

This must be part of the reason.

Rot 911 05-12-2022 01:33 PM
For decades, people have been trying to turn the desert southwest into an oasis. It’s never going to happen. Perhaps start conserving by turning off the water to all of the golf courses.

Captain Ahab Jr 05-12-2022 01:40 PM
Mother nature will always win in the end!

Superman 05-12-2022 02:31 PM
They say the next generation of wars will be fought over fresh water. Canada has a third of the world's fresh water reserves. I say we attack now.

While they least expect.

creaturecat 05-12-2022 03:51 PM
sounds ominous. no?

“We’re knocking on the door of judgment day – judgment day being when we don’t have any water to give anybody,”

rcooled 05-12-2022 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vash (Post 11690039)
we move oil long distances in pipes right? hell, we pipe water over the grapevine. pumping water isn't a problem that is not solvable.
There's about 190,000 miles of oil pipeline in the US. No reason why water can't be moved around in the same way.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1652396125.jpg

Then there's desalinization, a proven technology used in more than 120 countries around the world. But mention that here in CA, and people's heads start exploding.

I realize that controlling water here in the West is highly-politicized, but really...do we have to wait 'till the taps run dry before the powers-that-be get off their azzes and do something about this impending catastrophe?

DRONE 05-12-2022 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot 911 (Post 11690325)
For decades, people have been trying to turn the desert southwest into an oasis. It’s never going to happen. Perhaps start conserving by turning off the water to all of the golf courses.
They are doing this in San Diego, the problem is that they are building housing so they are not trying to save any water

hcoles 05-12-2022 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IROC (Post 11690069)
This guy has a good discussion on the subject:

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4785
Good discussion there. Thanks for posting.


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