High End Kitchen Appliances Are A Complete Scam

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

Every single piece of legit consumer advice I’ve ever read has said to NOT by extended warranties. The thinking is that everything is disposable now. The sellers of extended warranties get rich whilst the buyers of extended warranties tread water. Statistically speaking, of course.

Exactly. It's not like the extended warranty folks are going to ship you a new major appliance. They are going send the cheapest possible tech to go out to troubleshoot. Then that tech is going to order the part (it'll take a week), then another trip back out a week later after the part comes in to install the part. Then when the first part didn't fix the problem, and the tech couldn't figure out the problem.... (because the cheapest techs are REALLY clueless)

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by masraum

Are you sure it's analog, meaning, no ICs/chips/circuit boards that control everything? I'd be a little surprised if a 5 year old range didn't have a circuit board in it somewhere, but maybe not.

There could be but it's all dials and buttons.

[unclebilly]

Modern appliances are crap and the fancier they are the worse they seem to be.

12 years ago, we bought all top end appliances when we moved into our house.

We are on our 7th dishwasher - I now buy the cheapest one at Costco and just bring it back when it craps out. We had a fancy Maytag one for a while and it lasted under the 2 year warranty.

The best LG washer dryer at the time needed regular repairs so we bought the cheapest Electrolux (made in North America models) and they’ve been great apart from a sock that got jammed in the dryer and they fixed under warranty.

The LG fridge had been sorta ok.

The Whirlpool Gold gas range has been the only thing that hasn’t needed repairs (yet). We can run the range when the power is out but not the oven.

We do need to buy a new beer fridge - our 15 year old Danby crapped out this week. It lived outside for a year when we were building our house and we’ve been amazed it still worked after that. Anyway, not sure what to replace it with. Probably another cheap Danby.

[Crowbob]

I’ve had my cheapo dishwasher for going on thirty years.

Worked fine the last time I used it when Hale-Bopp passed by.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Gogar

I love my wolf and Sub Zero scores from Craigslist, and the parts chain is really great if you need something, even for a range that's 15 or 20 years old. I do have pretty simple non-computery, non-membrane switch versions of them and they've been awesome. knock on wood

My Sharp under counter microwave is 3 magnetrons in 6 years tho.

Sharp makes great microwaves. Big name also rebadge them

[jyl]

I try to buy commercial stuff. Ugly, crude, zero conveniences, but it’s built to be hammered on.

[look 171]

You know where its gone wrong? Like Steve said, why have so many complicated, often none use electronic features? The other is mandated energy consumption. Plastic gears vs old steel or alum gears. I just learn that all modern appliances have a life span of 10-14 years. Its done. No parts, no repairs due to high cost. Still, I would buy high end appliances over the run of the mill lower/mid grade stuff. Miele still make a great product but pricey.

OP, I often ask why the heck do we need a computer chip in a down draft vent? A switch to make it go up and down another to adj. fan speed. We (wolf is but I am overseeing it)will be installing a 48" wolf down draft unit for a client sometime next year. Fingers and toes crossed. Hopefully all appliances will last ten years before it goes south because we are remodeling this dude's second house over looking the ocean. I like to do his third or his retirement home in the up coming 5-8 years.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by jyl

I try to buy commercial stuff. Ugly, crude, zero conveniences, but it’s built to be hammered on.

Be careful with those commercial stoves. Lack of insulation and must be install with so many inches of air space before flammable materials like cabinets

[gregpark]

This is my outdoor kitchen stove I use a lot. No circuit board and no igniters, it just works. The burners flame on like a jet plane and boils water way faster than my Viking. It's 102 years old, is trouble free and as far as I can tell has been trouble free for 102 years so far
Our Viking "professional" we paid a lot for. I've had to replace two igniters and my wife says the oven doesn't bake evenly

[jyl]

Originally Posted by look 171

Be careful with those commercial stoves. Lack of insulation and must be install with so many inches of air space before flammable materials like cabinets

For the range I got an American Range, which is similar to their commercial model but with insulation, still no electronics unless you count the piezo igniters.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by look 171

OP, I often ask why the heck do we need a computer chip in a down draft vent? A switch to make it go up and down another to adj. fan speed.

Yeah it wasn't my viking downdraft switch but I looked at the part. Its connected to a ribbon cable that goes to the motor assembly way back under the counter. I suspect there's a pair of relays in there that tell the switch when to stop motoring. To me a $650 replacement switch for a downdraft vent just means you hate your customers.

I had to buy a high amperage timer switch. Found myself looking at Intermatic mechanical timer switches. Things are made out of sheet metal, have a bunch of gears and magic inside, they are cheap and are durable as HELL. Should see the big fat hard solder joints in there. That is a company that figured out a good design a long time ago and perfected it. In contrast these appliances are just such awful garbage. I'm guessing the problem is driven by marketing, the new features and the flash pull the customers. You can't win in mass appliance sales without the new slickness. Only old kooks try and fix stuff.

Another story (involving new miele induction range.) Friend swapped from gas range to miele because of good reviews. She waited about 9 months for range but unfortunately it arrived 2 weeks before electrician could install the new circuit. Selling company delivered unit to her entryway saying they'd come back to install once circuit was ready.

Circuit ready, another 2 weeks, installer shows and... whenever oven heats up the breaker pops. He of course says breaker is bad, electrician messed up. But the induction surfaces work great... She wants to return machine but no "She accepted delivery" so no returns, but miele will come fix it... weeks later...

I'm royally pissed. Give her a list of 4 circuit tests that the repair guy needs to show if he tries to leave without the machine fixed (and blaming the circuit.) Guy arrives late, ends up missing his next appointment. He's there 4 hours and can't get it to behave. He tries to leave and friend calls me. I ball him out on speaker phone - but he doesn't have the tools he'd need to diagnose anything. Some chump with a truck and no clue about electricity. What a bunch of crap. Tell my friend to insist he leaves with the broken device. She's been without a stove for more than a month.

So funny, the last thing he tries, takes all the fans out of the back of the oven, sees nothing wrong, puts them back in and gives up. He leaves with unit buttoned back up. Says he's going to need to come back but at least stovetops are ok to use.

And... whatever was the last thing he did... the oven works now. Some grounding problem in an oven motor? An actual short? Some mystery disease? Anyway. Major city (seattle) new miele induction range, miele repair guy... seriously disappointed.

Last nail in the coffin... it cooks like crap. Whoever thinks induction cooking is good has never used a good gas stove. All that trouble and it just sucks. Friend is stunned that her beautiful copper pans won't work (don't get me started on the decision in the first place.) I wouldn't be surprised if it breaks soon.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by jyl

For the range I got an American Range, which is similar to their commercial model but with insulation, still no electronics unless you count the piezo igniters.

Wow thanks for mentioning american. Those look really great! Pretty much exactly what I was looking for except no downdraft.

Wish I had a hood. I guess nothing is impossible, but it'd be big bux.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by jyl

For the range I got an American Range, which is similar to their commercial model but with insulation, still no electronics unless you count the piezo igniters.

American is the DCS residential units of the 90s and 2000s. They are simple, reliable, with finishes that are good, but not polished like a jewel similar to many of the Vikings and Thermadors of its time. The pricing reflects that. Normally it was about 1000-1500 bucks cheaper. I would buy an American range any day of the week but we will be going all electric in the future where no gas range or appliance can be had in CA. I just discovered that I can no longer have a tank water heater instead it must be tankless. I am going to stay ahead of their game and hook up 220 power to a box nearby and wait for that day. This is new building code in the city of Torrance where I am building ourselves a new rental.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by zakthor

Yeah it wasn't my viking downdraft switch but I looked at the part. Its connected to a ribbon cable that goes to the motor assembly way back under the counter. I suspect there's a pair of relays in there that tell the switch when to stop motoring. To me a $650 replacement switch for a downdraft vent just means you hate your customers.

I had to buy a high amperage timer switch. Found myself looking at Intermatic mechanical timer switches. Things are made out of sheet metal, have a bunch of gears and magic inside, they are cheap and are durable as HELL. Should see the big fat hard solder joints in there. That is a company that figured out a good design a long time ago and perfected it. In contrast these appliances are just such awful garbage. I'm guessing the problem is driven by marketing, the new features and the flash pull the customers. You can't win in mass appliance sales without the new slickness. Only old kooks try and fix stuff.

Another story (involving new miele induction range.) Friend swapped from gas range to miele because of good reviews. She waited about 9 months for range but unfortunately it arrived 2 weeks before electrician could install the new circuit. Selling company delivered unit to her entryway saying they'd come back to install once circuit was ready.

Circuit ready, another 2 weeks, installer shows and... whenever oven heats up the breaker pops. He of course says breaker is bad, electrician messed up. But the induction surfaces work great... She wants to return machine but no "She accepted delivery" so no returns, but miele will come fix it... weeks later...

I'm royally pissed. Give her a list of 4 circuit tests that the repair guy needs to show if he tries to leave without the machine fixed (and blaming the circuit.) Guy arrives late, ends up missing his next appointment. He's there 4 hours and can't get it to behave. He tries to leave and friend calls me. I ball him out on speaker phone - but he doesn't have the tools he'd need to diagnose anything. Some chump with a truck and no clue about electricity. What a bunch of crap. Tell my friend to insist he leaves with the broken device. She's been without a stove for more than a month.

So funny, the last thing he tries, takes all the fans out of the back of the oven, sees nothing wrong, puts them back in and gives up. He leaves with unit buttoned back up. Says he's going to need to come back but at least stovetops are ok to use.

And... whatever was the last thing he did... the oven works now. Some grounding problem in an oven motor? An actual short? Some mystery disease? Anyway. Major city (seattle) new miele induction range, miele repair guy... seriously disappointed.

Last nail in the coffin... it cooks like crap. Whoever thinks induction cooking is good has never used a good gas stove. All that trouble and it just sucks. Friend is stunned that her beautiful copper pans won't work (don't get me started on the decision in the first place.) I wouldn't be surprised if it breaks soon.

The same client had Miele in his last place because of my suggestion. Those factory installers are a fooking joke. We can do the job much cleaner then they can with one of our hands tied behind our backs. The ended up not installing the large hood they purchased due to some BS with the tile backing. We popped it up there in a couple hours. Factory trained my azz. bunch of idiots and they charge lots of money.

[look 171]

Hey op, who no vent hood? Second story or ceiling joist or something in the way?

[LWJ]

To OP,

I feel for you on the downdrafts. It’s a flawed technology. No solutions here.

I will say that my current kitchen appliances are very high end and pretty great. Yes, my monster subzero probably costs more than my car. And that wolf range is stupid expensive as well. Both have worked flawlessly for 15ish years. My Miele dishwasher was perfect for 15 years until it bit the dust. So I bought a second - which was a challenge due to supply chain issues.

Just a data point. I absolutely despise purchasing disposable stuff. And my kitchen appliances are (generally) made to last.

[Norm K]

Sub-Zero, Wolf, et al, are the Range Rovers of appliances.

_

[peppy]

We have been very pleased with our Capital stove. We have a basic open burner 36".

https://capital-cooking.com/products/culinarian/

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

This is why I buy top of the line previously loved appliances. Recently picked up this 48" range. The quality is amazing. Gas top and electric ovens. It's analog so if something breaks it's easy to repair. It sold for $8K 5 years ago. The current digital versions is $14K. I got this one for a little less.

Nice job on the installation too!




Couldn’t resist.

[2.7RS]

yup. But old appliances are not energy start eficient and they use too much energy