Any watchmakers?
 

Or friends of watchmakers?

I mean, old school watchmakers...

Long story short, I bought a mini lathe a few years back from a widow, and it included a bunch of random stuff in boxes. I finally got around to digging into it a bit, and ended up finding some watchmaker tools, some/all of which might be 100-120 years old? These are fittings for an old watchmaker lathe, which they used to hand cut gears, watch faces, crystals, etc.

Anyone know someone who does this, or collects old watchmaker parts? These are old enough that I'm having trouble pricing them, only a few examples exist on the interwebs in my searches.

I used to work with an instrument tech that made watches and clocks on the side, but I'm sure he's long since passed on. Some pictures of that collection and the lathe would be interesting to see.

You might approach a jeweler or two or somebody who specializes in old clocks (if you can find them).

Well if the mini lathe has been used for making watch parts you know it's very accurate, no wobbly bearings.

Good score.

Call Dave Rossi, King Jewelers, Chula Vista, California. I apprenticed there in the mid-80s. Old school shop. I have long been out of that business, so I have no reference for pricing.

Pictures would help.
The folks at Chappel-Jordan in Houston could help identify.

Interesting thread. Pics might be interesting.

My cousin.

He's an old school classically trained watchmaker who makes his own parts exactly as you describe.

Post up some pics and I'll ask him.

He's up here in Flower Mound.

That's so cool!

My wife loves old clocks. we have over 12 of them in the house, and she has a "clock guy" on speed dial. He comes over here on occasion to adjust and fix a few at a time for minor stuff. Large projects requires dropping them off at his shop. He has the mini lathe and lots more neat old clocks. He says watches are just too small for his old eyes and he sticks to clocks.

She sometimes comes into my office and asks if I want a clock for in here. I tell her, nope, I have a wrist watch, a cell phone and a computer I sit in front of. All have the precise time displayed. My watch is automatically set every night to the Atomic clock signal and never more than a second off.

I love clocks. I'd happily have several at my desk.

If you two have a spat do you go around changing the time ever so slightly on each of them?

I would.


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They are all set to different times now! They are off by a few minutes. None of them keep perfect time. Some run a little fast, some a bit slow and all at varying amounts. They are all OLD antique mechanical clocks and most have pendulums to adjust the speed. She winds, and sets them on Saturday morning. Some have stopped and have to be reset through several hours. Some are wound with a key, one way and some are wound another way. Some are on weights and have a chain to pull to wind them. Most have bells and different noises to designate the time and some are full Westminster tones.

I know to not touch them. Some are noisy as heck, and at noon it sounds like a clock shop. It is funny how my brain just filters them out, and I usually don't even hear them consciously. Most are pretty cool looking and some are just plain. She put one in our bedroom that sounds like a amped up metronome TIC TIC TIC TIC. I shut it down right away, I am not listening to that as I try to sleep. She lets it run during the day and I kill it at night before I go to bed.

Wow. When does she nominate you for sainthood?


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I think it's morning time right now. A Wednesday I think, but not 100% sure.

No it's Thursday. I've just looked at my diary and also the computer says it's Thursday at 9:33am.

My dad was trained as a watchmaker in Germany . He had the lathe and all accessories to go with it . He worked as a tool and die maker for IBM but was always working on watches and clocks . When he retired they moved to Tennessee . Their house got broken into and they stole my mom's silverware and my dad's watchmaker tools ☹️ . He is gone now but I sure miss watching him make watch and clock parts.

I have over 80 - and an understanding wife. I restore and maintain my collection - worked as an apprentice to an old clockmaker back in the 90's.

I have this. A Chelsea "Claremont" desk clock/barometer set. It chimes the 8 bell sequence used in maritime settings.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678319591.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678319623.jpg

A little background on the former owner "Al Polizzi"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Polizzi

Alfred Polizzi (born Alfonso Polizzi; Italian pronunciation: [alˈfɔnso poˈlittsi]; March 15, 1900 – May 26, 1975) was a Sicilian emigrant to the United States who was boss of the Cleveland crime family in Cleveland, Ohio, from 1935 to 1945. He stabilized the Cleveland crime family after a period of revenge killings, and was one of the most influential mobsters in the United States. He retired to Florida in 1945, where he was involved in the construction industry. He used several aliases, including "Big Al" and Albert Allen.

LOL, so does that mean rather than being the boss, that he then was more of a consultant? What I see/hear is that where the mob is big, they are in "construction".

The guy I bought my Wilton vise from has all you guys beat!😂

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678322474.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678322474.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678322474.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678322474.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678322474.jpg

I'll get pictures, but for starters, you can tell him I have a clean, working 6 jaw chuck from American Watch Tool Co, NOT from Derbyshire, who bought the rights in 1918...

Markings are "Snyder's Pats Jun 28 Dec 13-1881" which are the dates of the original patents for these 6-jaw chucks. That puts it between 1881 and 1917.

I'd love to go visit and chit-chat with a guy like that.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678332396.JPG

^^^^that photo of all the clocks automatically played Pink Floyd in my head….ticking away the moments….

On the subject of watches, a FB friend posted this of watches seen at Eric Wind's presentation at the NY Horological Society meeting.

Some beautiful watches to be sure....

https://www.windvintage.com/blog/watch-spotting-at-eric-winds-2023-horological-society-of-new-york-presentation

I make and repair watches and clocks as a hobby. Like most hobbyists I have a collection of lathes with various attachments. You can find just about every watchmakers lathe, attachments and associated tools, as well as just about any general watch tool, circulating around on eBay; and you can get a good idea of values pretty quickly.

Charles

That's super cool. You should post more. Pics of stuff that you've worked on, pics of clocks/watches, interesting tools, etc...

Some finished projects:
A few Gustav Beckers:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548123.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548123.jpg


A few Seths:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548123.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548123.jpg

An "Anniversary" clock
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548123.jpg

The obligatory cuckoo
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548123.jpg

Some chronos:

A Valjoux
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548123.jpg

A Poljot (pandemic project):
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548123.JPG

The "workbench"

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548718.jpg

Boley 8mm lathe and some tooling:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548718.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548718.jpg

A Marshall 8mm lathe and some tooling
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548718.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548718.jpg

A Peerless lathe
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548718.jpg

A Lorch Lathe for cutting gears and "topping up"
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678548718.jpg

Beware- this hobby is a SLIPPERY SLOPE!

Charles SmileWavy

Cool stuff, thank you for posting.
If I had the space and money, I'd have a room full of clocks. I'd love to learn to work on them.

why do watch makers / repairers need lathes so much? I do not get it....

Dang, charlesbahn, that's an impressive getup you have there. You should take more pictures when you get it tidied up a little! (ha ha)

This place never fails to impress me with members' hobbies.

When I posted before I had only seen Charles' clock/watch post. Now that he's got his bench posted, wow, very cool!

There was an estate sale for the older relative of my wife. I bought a couple of items out of the husband's shop. I think the husband had been gone for a while, and they were moving the wife into assisted living or something. I think the husband must have been into clock repair. I found some items that were interesting that I didn't purchase. The things that stood out most in my mind are hole closing punches.

In the old days most watch shops had lathes that were mostly for decoration. You could simply order most parts you needed from a supply house. They made it easy with catalogs parts charts and parts galore. Lathes were also sort of the pride and joy of the watch maker and one of their most expensive tools. But many just sat on the shelf.

With the demise of the profession, many of the these lathes come on the market in nearly unused condition from heirs who have no idea what they do or how to work them, for relatively much less money than they cost originally.

But you can actually build a watch from scratch with a well set up lathe. Problem is setting up the tooling for individual parts is very time consuming and somewhat repetitive. If you are a complete nut like I am, you can have several lathes set up for individual tasks- polishing pivots, making stems, and on and on.

Also certain lathes may have better or more available tooling for one project than another. The also come in different sizes- 6mm, 8mm, 10mm. You may be able to find a milling attachment (that you can afford) for one and polishing attachments for another.

This, at least, is how I have been able to explain why we need all these lathes to Mrs Charlesbahn ;)

That would be a "staking" set- generally used to open, close, modify mostly pivot holes in watches and clocks. A complete set has about 150 or so punches "stakes) and "stumps" plus a positioning guide with an anvil base. To the casual observer, these don't look like much, but each punch is tool steel, unique, and incredibly precise.

Charles

But if I tidied it up a little I wouldn't be able to find anything!

Well, seems like you're the person to talk to then!

Here's what I have:
About 20 various 8mm collets (Whitecomb, Hadl, Derbyshire and unknown)
3 8mm step collets (Moseley #1, and a #4 and #5 of unknown brand)
6 jaw chuck (pre-Derbyshire, American Watch Tool Co era)
All on what I think is a vintage Derbyshire box.

Also one piece that looks like it might be an arbor (Levin) and a homemade collet with a flat top milled from aluminum.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678631669.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678631669.jpg

[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads26
/IMG_20230311_1121452931678631669.jpg[/img]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678631669.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678631669.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678631832.jpg

Cool, They are are all old, as you thought, but not rare. The collets in 8mm generally can go for $10-20 each if they are perfect. Not perfect they are worthless as you can't use them for the precise work needed. The three larger ones would prob be the most desirable. The arbor, not worth too much. The step collets are common, prob $50-$75 or so for the three.

The 6 jaw chuck is an another category if it functions correctly (adjuster and jaws all turn freely)- but looks like a wrench has been used on the adjuster wheel. Anyway, prob 2-3 hundred if works properly.

The most desirable things to look for are the milling attachments and cross slides. Pivot polishing attachments are really cool but don't bring much $.

Hope that helps, price estimates are just based on my experience, others may have other opinions. Really only two groups of buyers. Hobbyist/amature watch/clock enthusiasts who will put them to use, and collectors who want something cool to put on a shelf. Best place to sell would be on the bay if you don't mind answering a thousand questions.

Charles