Are Porsche's UNION made? - Page 2

911pcars · 06-11-2003, 05:04 PM

Nature and the market usually dictate what evolves. When there comes a time when both corporations and unions become wise enough, there won't be a need for unions.

Sherwood

tabs · 06-12-2003, 10:16 AM

Back in 1910 Henry Ford decided to pay $5 a day to his employees on the assembly line...which was an unheard of wage in it's day, all the other car compainies thought it would bankrupt them to match the wage. However Fords turnover rate was so high that it didn't matter, he couldn't keep the people. His working conditions were so bad.

The Entertainment Union workers have about as much relationship to
UAW or UMW workers as a slave ship does to a luxury liner....allthough there doesn't seem to be much difference in intelligence or taste levels.

BTW I've made my comments concerning Unions and their efficacy today on another recent thread that showed up on the OT Board.

BlueSkyJaunte · 06-12-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
allthough there doesn't seem to be much difference in intelligence or taste levels.

Amen. Just turn on the TV for proof!!

Chas White · 06-12-2003, 06:32 PM

Let's not forget that within living memory 8 year old kids were working in factories in this country. I doubt anyone with a textile mill or a coal mine of their own ever said, "Hey, these kids should be in school." Laws had to be written that forbade them from hiring kids. These "Captians of Industry" had to be dragged, kicking and screaming to treating teir workers decentlly. Telling a factory owner how much he had to pay a worker went against everything America stood for. (They said.) People died bringing in unions.

But 100 years ago there was at least a face at the top: Today's corporations are faceless amoral entites that know only one rule: Eat The Little Fish.
And if someone else signs your paycheck friend, you're a little fish.

Incidentally, check out the "Flexible Family Time" legislation now in congress. Sounds like a good thing, right? This law would end the 40 hour week. Your mamager could have you work as many or as few hour a week as he likes, forget about overtime. Welcome to life in the Empire.

Regards,
C.W.

tabs · 06-13-2003, 01:33 AM

Charles I agree with your history of Unionism...today most Unions act like corporations...their product is the labor they supply. It was the guys who started the Unions and bled for them that cared for the worker, today all they really care about is the Pension Fund and Health Care contributions the Company has to make every month.

Again most of the established corporations...GM, IBM as 2 examples that govern by commitee. Thus to rise to the top one has to be a grey grey man...one who blends perfectly into the background of responsibility and who could swim without making a wave...while knowing just the little nuance of subtlety that will do his competitor in the hierarchy in. Of course this really doesn't apply to what I would term Corporations that are headed by 1st or 2nd generaton excutives. Take Microsoft for example...Bill Gates is ruthless and he takes chanchs, he is anything but a Grey Man...he beat the krap outa the grey guys at IBM. After Bill Gates is gone the 2nd generation of leadership will have been put in place by Gates and will continue to have the same flavor as he does...cause they will remember how the old man did it. But the 3rd generation will never have been around in the wild wooly days and will only know how to su(k up as a way of doing things.

As far as life in the Empire....the USA is the NEW ROMAN EMPIRE...only the USA doesn't intend in conquering territory with armies, we tend to use military force as a last resort...mostly to remind people who opose the USA that we got the will and means to put you in a world of hurt if your not going to conform to our definition of reasonableness. We send Mickey Mouse, McDonalds, Coke Cola, Levis, out into the world as our instrument of occupation...you might say ideas instead of armies. Now as recepiant of the benfits of being an American I have nothing against this state of affairs. I say long live Caesar and the American empire...I am all for it.

911pcars · 06-13-2003, 11:13 AM

Tabs,
As a history buff, you know that history repeats itself.

What we (USA) are currently appearing to do is what the Roman empire tried to do, what the Moslems tried to do, what the Spanish tried to do, and what the Brits tried to do, among others. And look what happened to them. The means may be different, but the objective is the same. Never mind our "noble intentions" to promote democracy. The perception is different.

People who have this outlook (unfortunately, those in power) probably won't outlive the immediate benefits of this narcissistic philosophy, thus don't care. However, that's the same rational by those in history who conspired or allowed to happen and benefited from it. Some call it ... greed among other description terms. Wrong? I guess it depends on your perspective.

Sherwood

tabs · 06-13-2003, 03:58 PM

Historically speaking the USA position is the closest thing to the Roman Empire since Rome itself. No oither power since has been as great and all encompassing.

Greed, yeah there is Greed...however are you egalitarian enough Sherwood to give up some of the luxury items you have in your home...like your favorite toy...your P car....so I guess I want to say that we all have a vested interest in maintaining our life styles...I know I sure don't want to give up my stuff and I have blood on my hands indirectly as a result of that. Some one is going to say they are active in oposition to the system, unless you live like Ted Kowsinski in Idaho your just foolin yo self.

911pcars · 06-13-2003, 06:06 PM

Well, I'm of the mind that all the money we spend on our weapons of mass destruction is indeed coming out of my pocket ... and yours. Money that could have paid for more car parts (sick), a nicer family trip, to repair an early S or to enlarge a spoon collection. Last I heard, we have a bunch of people out of work and Halliburton's contract to fix Iraq is now up to many many millions more than initially thought. So yes, that does affect my life style, if not yours.

In addition, our Homeland security forces want to "withhold" some of our rights in the name of "security". It's not money, but that's coming out of both our lifestyles. Do you hear strange clicking on your phone? Maybe not, but if you do, don't worry. It's only our govt. making sure you're not a danger to our republic.

Have a nice weekend,
Sherwood

turbo6bar · 06-13-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
Some one is going to say they are active in oposition to the system, unless you live like Ted Kowsinski in Idaho your just foolin yo self.

Damn, ain't that the truth. My pops is a city planning commission in a very small town. He gets paid dirt for the trash talk he gets from angry citizens. When I tell the good citizens they should run for office, all I hear is zipping of the lips.

Walking is a LOT harder than talking...

Jurgen

tabs · 06-14-2003, 08:50 AM

Sherwood our military muscle is what has kept the other guy from sleeping in your bed, using your TV and driving your Porsche. Actually it's what has enabled you to have those things...so it's been a small price to pay for the luxuries you have enjoyed in your life being an American.

The errosion of Rights is another matter....the liberals in America have been nibbling at your rights for years.....take smoking for example, or how PC one has to be so that we don't offend somebodies feelings, or the gun issue...it doesn't matter if you want one or not...someone is trying to tell you, you can't have one.

You also have to remember that Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the Civil War....and our Repblic survived...the problem is that once a right has been erroded it becomes the norm....it isn't the current administration or even the next few administrations that will abuse the power it will be 20 or 30 years out that someone will use it to their advantage and abuse power. Thats why I think a strong debate on the issue is a good thing for our government.

I get a strong smell that our government agencies are in effect walking a thin line with regard to our law internationally. We use other nations security forces to do our dirty work.

As an example whatever happened to the 2nd in command of Al Oadea after they caught him in Pakistan? Nobody in the Media has said a word about the AL Qadea detainees in Cuba...we are in effect treating them like dogs in a kennel..The message thats has sent is thats what your fates gona be if we catch you. I heard a news report that 10 of them have tried to kill themselves.

beepbeep · 06-20-2003, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JackOlsen
To put it simply, I wouldn't have a Porsche (or a house, or medical insurance, or many other things) if it weren't for my union, and a lot of brave union members who put their jobs and their livelihoods on the line long before I was even born.

This is OT, however.

Amen!

I'm in union as well...saved my a** when my ex-boss tried to do some very dirty tricks.

Roadman_944 · 11:03 AM

As I read all of the replies to this post I can't help notice that there is no mention of work ethics of the union members. Sorry, I submitted before finishing. I am not a union member and as of now have no desire to be. I currently work as a production supervisor. I find myself constantly fighting to get the union employees to do the job that their union brothers a sisters bargained for. It seems the union has turned into a hidding place for many of the union members. (Not all). I am not against unions. I think they play a very important role in the labor force. BUT.....How can you defend an organization that requires a company to pay an hourly empleyee that works his a** of because he has good work ethics the same money as an employee that seems to have none and then HIDES behind the union when the employer tries to diciplin them for it. I have tried several times to fire an hourly employee that CONTINUOSLY violated safety rules only to have their union fight for their job. I finaly had to give up because the union wanted my employer to fire me for harasment. Anyway..... I think the union does do some good things for their members. It's when they protect the sorry a** members that make their brothers and sisters carry the load that pisses me off.