Splitting the cost with a neighbor
 

Another 'What would you do?' question:

My parents own a rental property (single-family house). The neighbor recently had to re-do their pool plumbing equipment/wiring. During the course of that, supposedly there was severe root intrusion into the pool plumbing. My parents had 3 large trees in their backyard, just on the other side of the common/shared wooden fence. The neighbors asked my parents to cut take care of the trees.

My parents paid for arborists to take down the three trees.

The neighbor completed their pool work, took down the old wooden fence, and put up a new vinyl one that runs the length of the property--from driveway to back corner of the lot.

Now the neighbor is asking my parents to split the bill. For both the fence ($5000) and the pool repairs ($6300).

I can understand the splitting the cost of the shared fence. But the pool equipment, too? Particularly because their request is after the fact. I have not visited this property in about 40 years, so I have no idea how the rest of the two backyards are landscaped (other trees?).

If my parents knew they were paying for half the bill, should they have had some say in the choice of vendors? Are my parents liable for any future issues with the pool/repairs? What if the work was shoddy? Do my parents have to pay for future repairs? How do we know if the "invoice" actually reflects the price paid by the neighbor? It wouldn't be the first time a contractor charged one price, yet with a wink and a nudge printed up a different amount on an invoice or estimate. Were the repairs just to fix like with like? Or were there upgrades done to the pool/equipment?

They did enough in taking down the trees. They neighbor is asking way too much.

The pervious fence was adequate and they didn't ask first so NO. The pool repairs, that's their business (problem) so NO, and would they please hurry up and pay for the removal of the trees!

The neighbors should have asked to split the bill before any work was done. And that would only be for the fence. Their pool equipment is all on them.

Nope. I would never pay for half the fence because it did not need to be taken down. If they feel the need to do so, have at it but pay for that in full and do not install that fence in the middle of the property but on their side. I have fences on all my rentals, and they are always built and pay for it in full by me and are always on my side of the property. This way, I don't have to hear it. As far as the pool equip, that's not your parents responsibility.

Sure, split the fence.

Since neighbor asked for tree to be removed, did they offer to pay any of that?

As far as pool - which was there first, tree or pool?

No, to all questions.

+1 to both

No payment for any of it! Not even the fence.

I have to also say.....that neighbor is a real piece of work! :rolleyes:

In UK law, which I am sure is not applicable here, although there may easily be an equivalent US law, one can be liable for damage caused by the roots of one's tree to a neighbour's property, by the law of "nuisance".

You are required to pay the cost of abating the nuisance and all remedial works, although the defence is available to you that the injured party had sufficient control over the tree to abate the nuisance themselves, such as by e.g. cutting back the roots or building their pool in such a way as to be immune to the roots, in which case they might be jointly liable with you for their own losses.

They would mormally have to provide an arboriculturist's report proving the nuisance was caused by your tree and a surveyor's report quantifying the damage, although if they won their claim, you would probably be liable for the costs of these reports.

It is important, therefore, if you do not wish to pay, that you do not do anything which might reasonably be construed as accepting that your tree caused the damage.

If the trees are now gone they may not even be able to prove that there were any trees at all, so you might not even want to admit this fact. It sounds like at this moment you do not even know that they did not have trees themselves which could have caused the damage, so if they pressed for damages I would probably start by asking them to prove that they did not have any of their own trees or roots over the entire period the pool was there. That might be difficult for them to do.

It would also be important whether the trees and roots were already there before they installed the pool, in which case the liability could be upon them for not abating the roots or building the pool to be immune from damage, or notifying you at the time of the problem, when a reasonable person would have foreseen the issue.

If your parents have not yet paid for the fence I would withhold that money, even if they feel it would be fair to pay that. As it is conceivable they may end up liable for pool costs but not be liable for the fence.

If it were me I would aim to agree verbally with the neighbour what the sum was to be and once agreed I'd get a solicitor to draft a letter for the neighbour to sign, stating that no liability is accepted and that the sum will be the entire settlement and no further monies due in respect of the matter. As part of the verbal discussion, I'd inform them that the letter would follow, just so we all know where we stand and make sure they agree to it, on the grounds that it "protects both parties" and "makes sure there's no misunderstanding". Only then would I make any payment. You'd also need to be sure the person signing was the only possible claimant.

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https://blacklinehhp.com/fence-laws-in-california

Pool, absolutely not. Fence requires prior notice.

After the fact? No.

If they would’ve liked the neighbor to incur some of the cost, they should’ve asked beforehand and involved them with the entire process.

This is one of those “if you don’t ask, the answer is always no”, situations. And because they agreed to remove the tree without discussion, they think they can now ask for a shared expense.

My answer is simply “no”.

I just finished dealing with this in one of my rental, single family. Lady next door ask me to remove the old broken fence after construction and agrees split the cost for a block wall. Hell no, I am NOT paying for a block wall. Instead, a wooden fence built on my side of the property. Survey was done for construction so I know exactly where the property line is. She was not happy because she had to look at the back of the fence and demanded that I finish the other side. Yeah right.

We just put in a new block wall on one of our rentals.
The old fence was wood, but a block wall seemed to be the best option.
We split the cost with the neighbor. No pool involved, but it did cost $6000 each.

No problem, no drama.

Good points.

An arborist (not sure if picked by the neighbor or my parents' rental agency) give an extensive report documenting the root damage and how it was most likely from my parents' 3 trees. The 3 trees were on my parents' property, close to the property line.

Not sure how long the trees and neighbor's pool have been there. Chicken or egg? My parents have owned this rental house for probably over 40 years, so the trees may likely be that old.

Good point on having neighbor sign off on a release, if my parents wind up paying for anything.

I really appreciate the input of the braintrust here on PPOT. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't way off base when I heard the neighbor wanted my parents to foot half the tab for the pool plumbing equipment. I didn't see the neighbors offering to split the cost of taking down the trees.

In that case I'd probably just check if the arborist has been misled in any way. Their report may state as a premise that there were no other trees. Check with your tenants whether your neighbour recently removed trees of their own.

If they have the report they're probably serious about making you pay. Get them to acknowledge in an email / writing that you're not present at the property regularly. Ask them when the pool was put in and point out that they didn't at that point a) take measures to protect against the roots and b) notify you of the foreseeable outcome of THEIR pool building, and point out their duty to mitigate their own losses. I'd still admit no liability and verbally offer them cents in the dollar on their pool costs and nothing for the fence, as that should have been agreed in advance.

If you feel duty bound to pay half of the fence, offer them that amount for the pool.

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FWIW, it’s hurricane season again (here). It has been well documented, if a (live) tree falls from your yard and does damage to your neighbor’s house, it is the responsibility of the neighbor’s insurance company to cover the neighbor’s damage. Seems like the same would apply from root damage. Sounds like the neighbor is way out of his lane.

The time to ask is before any work were done, then they could have had some input on the fence. after the fact, no. Pool plumbing, no in any scenario.

I would explain to the neighbor that in removing the trees they did more than enough. The balance is on them. Trees grow and that is that. If they chose a nice vinyl fence, that was on them unless your parents are just very generous.

If they wanted to split anything, ^that's^ exactly it.

The fact that you parents had 3 trees taken down, to me says that they have already paid for work to help out the neighbors.

If the parents were going to pay for the fence, they'd have also had a say in the fence replacement.

No, your parents should not hand any money over to the neighbor.

It's amazing what folks will do these days.

I'm pretty sure that those sorts of laws are local/state laws, so what's true in NC may or may not be the same in SC, FL, TX, CA, etc....

Most of what I remember hearing in the last 10-20 years has been similar, tree falling is the responsibility of the folks that it landed on, but I do remember hearing in the past that your tree falling on neighbors property is your responsibility. It may also depend upon whose property the tree was over before it fell, eg, a branch from a tree on your property that extends over the neighbors drive way and lands on their car is their problem.

I think it depends upon the local laws.

Cutting down the trees was more than neighborly, I would think they have diminished the property value by doing so. Do your parents have a pool as well? If no then I would think the responsibility to maintain a fence for the purpose of protecting the public from the pool rests solely on the pool owner. I have split fencing costs with both of my side neighbors w no pools on any of our properties, neighbor behind me has a pool and called to let me know that he wanted to replace the fence that we had been maintaining. I questioned him about cost and he said he had it covered as it was a want more than need, I suspected he was paying for it so that he could put the finished looking side towards his yard and pool. Came home after the work was completed and the finished boards were still on my side. Good fences make good neighbors. As an aside I don’t mind the unfinished side as you can put a beer, water, tools, etc., on the framing when working in the yard.

As for paying for pool repairs, would be interesting to hear the answer to the question above, what was there first, the pool or the trees? I’m friendly w the neighbors, have been in their houses or spoken by phone to all of them in the past couple of weeks, they know better than to suggest that I would be participating in their pool repairs.

No to both fence and pool repairs. Arborists were a neighborly gesture, that is the extent of your parents responsibility.

If the neighbors want other people to chip in on their repairs they should seek a neighborhood with an HOA.

How do you go about sharing a fence? On whose property is it set?

The fence goes on one property or the other.

No (reputable) fence company puts a fence up without a survey and locating the survey stakes.

If cost is to be shared - that is when the decision is also made whose property the fence goes on. All in agreement AHEAD of time.

It's called communicating and COLLABORATION. The polar opposite is COMPETING.

Usually the decision to put up a fence is done by the property owner who wants the fence in the first place, and theirs is the property the fence is installed on.

I put one up on my property by myself and later on the neighbor to my south thanked me and offered the pay half, which I declined. I told him next fence is on him! ;)

BTW....local code here, is if one side of the fence is better looking - it goes on the OUTSIDE facing OUT, that is. Mine is that way and as Hads930 wrote: "As an aside I don’t mind the unfinished side as you can put a beer, water, tools, etc., on the framing when working in the yard."

I’m thinking the insurance companies have a lot to do with it too. In Va we had a large tulip poplar come out of the ground and fall toward the back door neighbors but didn’t hit them. Insurance there said same thing…live tree falls from my yard it’s the neighbor’s insurance. If the tree is dead and does damage to neighbor’s house, then I’m negligent and my insurance pays.
Whatever, I wouldn’t be paying for the neighbor’s problem with my tree roots any more than I would expect him to pay for my problem with his tree roots.

But it was your job to tell the tree where to grow it's roots. You were supposed to tell it to only grow them on your property!

A phone call to the city building department could tell you what year the pool was installed. I am surprised that a root could damage a good condition plastic pipe, the times I have seen that was old clay pipe with leaks at the joints.

I agree with every other response here and the trees were never a problem for your parents, only for the neighbors. They did them a real favor removing them at their expense. If it was me and I liked the trees, they might have had to find a different solution for their pool issues.

The counter argument. Maybe they had a small leak in their pipe causing the roots to grow that way due to the water source. So, its on them. They should have saved the pipes to proof to your folks that it never leaked and that's the root's fault for growing over that way.

I looked up the city records. The neighbors' pool was built (permitted, at least) in 1977. My parents' rental house was also built in 1977; they bought it new, and that was the transaction date. Presumably the three now-removed trees have been there since the house was purchased. There aren't too many renters who are going to go to the expense/effort of planting trees.

Then, I looked at the satellite images of the two houses, and while my parents' backyard is fairly barren, the neighbors with the pool have all sorts of landscaping with multiple mature trees throughout their oasis-style backyard.

What should happen is that the neighbors submit a homeowners claim for the pool repair and let their ins co and your parents ins. co fight it out in subrogation.
As to the fence, nfw unless it was agreed to in advance.

That would be a hell no. We would have never took down the trees either they can move their crappy pool.

if there is any lumber left, you can count the years.
If the trees are older than the pool, fwiw I'de tell em to pound sand for the pool cause clearly they would have seen the trees and should have assumed they had roots when they built the frigging pool.

This is the law in California. You also have to have the finished side facing out so it is harder to climb. You can finish both sides, but the outside must be

I think the neighbours are trying to take advantage of the nice elderly people next door.