How to break free "threaded cast iron" plumbing

[rwest]

“Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum which to place it on and I shall move the world”

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Porchdog

Hey Cab - If that fitting is cast, there's a very good chance he can bust it with a hammer. I think it's forged - and if it is forged, busting it with a hammer is going to be tough.

If pipe wrenches plus cheaters aren't doing the job, I would heat the fitting until it glows. That's if I felt good about protecting the stud and wall behind it. If heat seems like a bad idea - you can saw it off.

Only one sure way to find out!

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by Porchdog

Aluminum pipe wrenches are nice, but don't use pipe cheaters on the handles.

Thanks for the tip. The last thing I want to do is break my expensive pipe wrench. thanks for your other tips as well.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

But I'd still pop a Fernco on it and move on.

I ordered a 3" Fernco Hub Donut for the cast iron sewer line. It won't be here until Thursday so I have two days to play with this cast/forged iron elbow. If I can't bet it removed by then, I will move on to a rubber elbow/connector.

[Porchdog]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

Thanks for the tip. The last thing I want to do is break my expensive pipe wrench. thanks for your other tips as well.

One of the guys in our shop has an 18" aluminum Rigid that has been welded back together twice....

It's really worth the time to go grab a longer wrench. Or a steel wrench to go with your pipe cheater.

[unclebilly]

Well this is how we make and break connections in the oil patch… this is getting ready to run my old multi lateral reentry tool on coiled tubing.

2 RIDGID STEEL 36” pipe wrenches with a chain come along between them. We use a dynamometer to tighten to the correct torques.

Put down your purse and get after it.

[unclebilly]

Do not try the above with anything other than a STEEL RIDGID wrench.

[unclebilly]

Contrary to what Porchdog says, We use snipes on aluminum RIDGiD pipe wrenches all the time. Ideally aluminum pipe but not always.

It’s what we do. And we are breaking connections made up to 2500 ft-lbs all day, everyday.

Some of our wrenches have been customized with pieces to hold the jaws tight (as shown in the pic), some companies braze carbide grips onto the jaws to bite through case hardened tool joints.

[unclebilly]

Also, you need atleast a 36” wrench to grab on 4” pipe. The jaws on a 24 don’t open enough and the diameter of a 4” box is about max for a 36. I know I’ve struggled with installing wellheads on 4.5” casing for low pressure shallow gas wells using a 36.

[Porchdog]

Hey there Billy!

We have done that come-along trick, but only a few times that I recall and mostly on the ancient 6" & 8" threaded fittings. I don't know that I've seen a crane scale in the setup before - that's precision right there!

Regarding steel vs. aluminum wrenches. Pipes can bend the handle on steel wrenches. Aluminum wrench handles break. I agree on Rigid brand. We aren't usually working with oil patch money - we aren't eager to break an aluminum Rigid.

Off topic - my son got a couple of aluminum rigids for Christmas last year.

I will say - that pipe in the photo doesn't look any bigger than 1-1/2". I'm thinking one of my beefy young fellas with a pair of 24's would spin that right out without even a second thought. Not me - I can't pull that hard any more.

[javadog]

I once knew a sprinkler pipe fitter named Leroy that never used a pipe wrench. Channel locks were his preferred tool.

Leroy was a very big boy and well fed.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by Porchdog

Hey there Billy!

I will say - that pipe in the photo doesn't look any bigger than 1-1/2". I'm thinking one of my beefy young fellas with a pair of 24's would spin that right out without even a second thought. Not me - I can't pull that hard any more.

The tools in the photo were 2.125” diameter with 1.5 AMMT threads. I recall them being made up to about 1000 ft-lbs and it usually takes 20% more to break them.

We use these same wrenches and tools to connect 2.375 PAC threads and depending the diameter of the bit box, these are 3500 ft-lbs. I don’t have a photo in my phone of that.

This is common place on EVERY post frac plug milling job everywhere in North America.

[Tidybuoy]

What am I doing wrong? I've done this before without issue but this time is not working at all.

I have a 3" cast iron hub that "had" a 2" rusted out galvanized drain pipe connected with oakum and lead. I got that all seperated and ordered a 3x2 Fernco (see pics).

The rubber Fernco is 4" outer diameter and definately will not work. I looked up the part number online because I thought they sent me the wrong part (miss-labeled) but it is indeed the correct part. There is no way this can be pounded into place as the rubber is 1" thick and not pliable at all.

Why is it 4" and what should I be ordering?

Cast Iron Bell/Hub: Opening Measures 3"


Fernco Dount Ordered:


Fernco - Outer = 4", Inner = 2"


Thanks for any advice!

[Porchdog]

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/cast-iron-soil-pipe-dimensions-d_1751.html

I don't do much with cast iron, but I'm going to say that hub is 2" cast. See chart linked.

2" steel or PVC is 2-3/8" OD.

I don't know about Ferncos, but I'm guessing that you need a 2" x 2".

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by Porchdog

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/cast-iron-soil-pipe-dimensions-d_1751.html

I don't do much with cast iron, but I'm going to say that hub is 2" cast. See chart linked.

2" steel or PVC is 2-3/8" OD.

I don't know about Ferncos, but I'm guessing that you need a 2" x 2".

Sounds right. Now that I think about this, I previously did this with the main sewer line. But at the time, I ordered a 4" fernco and never measured the hub because I knew the pipe was 4" (might have actually been 6" but it's been so long, I don't remember and I'm not crawling under the house just for this conversation )

[NY65912]

There is a difference between XH and SV cast iron soil pipe, I think that is the problem with your hub. The cast iron 45 in the first pic is a drainage fitting, we used to call them Durham fittings or drainage fittings and crack when struck .

[Tidybuoy]

IT WORKED!

Thanks to the guys that recommended using a large cheater bar and soaking in WD40-Specialist. And a large cheater bar it was - see pics.

8 foot Pipe for Cheater Bar:

Bar in Use:

Secondary Vent Pipe Removed:

Forged Elbow Removed:

Tools Used:

[Zeke]

I think I can make out Rigid-USA on the wrench. IDT you'd have done that to a HF pipe wrench. It didn't even bend. It might have but you snugged the wrench all the way down to the head.

Good job!

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I think I can make out Rigid-USA on the wrench. IDT you'd have done that to a HF pipe wrench. It didn't even bend. It might have but you snugged the wrench all the way down to the head.

Good job!

Yes, Rigid 24" Wrench. Easy to snug the whole wrench with the 2" diam pipe.

IDT & HF (can't find those terms on Google)

[NY65912]

Great news. I have always found that vent lines were never made up as tight as drain piping. As long as the outcome was successful! This is the most involved I have been in a plumbing issue after 47+ years in the business since I retired!