PVC > PEX > PVC - underground. Is that OK?

[masraum]

I'm so FARKIN tired of fixing cracked/leaking PVC underground because of dry spells that cause the ground to move and crack joints.

Pex is flexible, so it seems like it would be a good (easier) alternative to using PVC once I had one of the PEX crimp tools. I've had to fix cracked underground PVC at least 4-5 times in the last 4-5 years because we've had unusually dry weather. If it's in a straight run, it's pretty easy, but this was a beyotch because of the third leg!

And I had this all laid out today, and then because I was focused on the bonding/gluing, I forgot that the joints slip together more once you put the glue on. So I trimmed 2 pieces which made them too small. I then had to cut everything apart and do it again. I don't think the second time fit as well as the first time would have.

So, could I have used PEX for this, and is PEX ok underground?

[rwest]

What is the plumbing for? If it’s not for drinking water, you could use the tubing that is used for irrigation, that is flexible and hold up well.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by rwest

What is the plumbing for? If it’s not for drinking water, you could use the tubing that is used for irrigation, that is flexible and hold up well.

This particular spot is only feeding hose bibs/spigots in the yard, so nothing in the house. It's entirely possible that the kids could end up drinking out of the hose though.

The worst part about the repairs that I've done for pipes that feed spigots is that there's no cutoff for the main feed to the spigots, so I have to completely kill the water for everything including the house. What I really need is to dig up where the house and spigots split off and add a cutoff for the spigots so I can kill that while leaving our home with water.

[masraum]

PEX can certainly be buried. I guess the only question then is PVC > PEX > PVC, which I assume is "OK" but not ideal.


https://www.sharkbite.com/us/en/resources/blog/new-build-remodels/piping-systems-comparison-education/10-facts-about-pex-pipe-you-need-to-know

Can you bury PEX?

Yes, you can bury SharkBite PEX-a and PEX-b pipe in most applications, as it’s approved to AWWA C904, which covers PEX pipe in regard to burial. Be sure to check with local, city or state codes to see if the pipe needs to have sleeves or any type of protective burial for your area. PEX pipe can be used as a service line based on its corrosion resistance to soil and water, its long life and its oxidative resistance.

Our PEX pipe is not suitable for use in areas where the soil is or may become contaminated, including soil used for backfilling. Soil used for backfilling must be free of rocks, debris or any sharp object that may cause damage to the fitting or pipe through impact or abrasion.

It's also important to note certain fittings must be wrapped for underground burial, so if you’re installing any PEX connections underground, check to see if you’ll need silicone tape to wrap the fitting.

[juanbenae]

Buy a couple bags of sand and encase the pipe & fitting with it when you make repairs before backfilling with the native material. Utilities such as water, sewer, storm, communications, power and countless others require some sort of pipe embedment import material. Not necessarily sand, sometime drain type rock, or something else that can be compacted, yet not effected by the native soil's expansion and contraction. Sand around your pipes would make it easier to excavated for future repairs, although there prolly won't be any more...


Sand Man!

[A930Rocket]

Is there any plan to replace the PVC with long runs of PEX or something else?

If you had a tractor, maybe you could fab up a blade that would cut a ditch just wide and deep enough for the new line

[masraum]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

Buy a couple bags of sand and encase the pipe & fitting with it when you make repairs before backfilling with the native material. Utilities such as water, sewer, storm, communications, power and countless others require some sort of pipe embedment import material. Not necessarily sand, sometime drain type rock, or something else that can be compacted, yet not effected by the native soil's expansion and contraction. Sand around your pipes would make it easier to excavated for future repairs, although there prolly won't be any more...


Sand Man!

Yep. I always fill with a few bags of sand before the normal soil goes back in the hole.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Is there any plan to replace the PVC with long runs of PEX or something else?

If you had a tractor, maybe you could fab up a blade that would cut a ditch just wide and deep enough for the new line

Nothing more than a vague notion of, “we should replace it all with PEX someday.”

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yep. I always fill with a few bags of sand before the normal soil goes back in the hole.

If you encase the pipe above, below and each side a couple of inches with the sand the native soil flexing due to moisture intrusion and drying will be cushioned and not be so likely to displace joints...

Pex is junk IMO... My sister in a 7-year-old new home has joined a class action suit against the developer and PEX over failed inwall water lines. Fortunately for her there has been no failures in her home, but a bunch of neighbors have had failed joints and flooded homes.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

If you encase the pipe above, below and each side a couple of inches with the sand the native soil flexing due to moisture intrusion and drying will be cushioned and not be so likely to displace joints...

Pex is junk IMO... My sister in a 7-year-old new home has joined a class action suit against the developer and PEX over failed inwall water lines. Fortunately for her there has been no failures in her home, but a bunch of neighbors have had failed joints and flooded homes.

The first underground break we had I called a plumber. He was cheap (I’d already dug the hole) and showed me what he did and told me why. He also advised me to buy some sand and explained why (same explanation as you) so that’s been my process since.

Interesting about the PEX issue. Thanks

[craigster59]

Get some schedule 40 flex pipe. It can accept regular fittings and bends to get into spliced areas.
Makes repairs a snap.

https://www.poolweb.com/products/pvc-flexible-pipe-3-4-inch-schedule-40-sold-per-foot

[cabmandone]

Sorry! That link drug out way too long. I'd replace every last bit of it with 3/4 polyethylene pipe (the black stuff they use for well line) and I'd rent a vibratory plow to put the stuff in. Problem gone.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by craigster59

Get some schedule 40 flex pipe. It can accept regular fittings and bends to get into spliced areas.
Makes repairs a snap.

https://www.poolweb.com/products/pvc-flexible-pipe-3-4-inch-schedule-40-sold-per-foot

Interesting. Do you use the same fittings and glue it the same as other PVC? Flexible would definitely be easier.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

Sorry! That link drug out way too long. I'd replace every last bit of it with 3/4 polyethylene pipe (the black stuff they use for well line) and I'd rent a vibratory plow to put the stuff in. Problem gone.

That also looks like a great option, and since it comes in 100' lengths (or 300'), there wouldn't be a coupling on regular intervals.

I've done some reading and watched a couple of videos. This certainly seems like the way to go.

[oldE]

Steve, you have done yourself a big favor by getting the T out of the direct line of the rest of the pipe. It may not seem like much, but it will allow for expansion and or flex.
Years ago when I ran the line to the barn, my neighbor who dug the trench, directed me to lay the pipe in a series of shallow S curves to allow for settling and movement.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by oldE

Steve, you have done yourself a big favor by getting the T out of the direct line of the rest of the pipe. It may not seem like much, but it will allow for expansion and or flex.
Years ago when I ran the line to the barn, my neighbor who dug the trench, directed me to lay the pipe in a series of shallow S curves to allow for settling and movement.

A few years back, I had the first break due to drought, and the ground shrinking/moving and causing a break on a coupler. I dug the break up, and didn't know how to fix it, so called a plumber. The guy explained to me how/why to create an expansion loop to provide some space for the pipe to flex, and also to backfill with sand to allow better movement than our clay soil that gets hard when it's dry. It's been my practice since.

[Bugsinrugs]

When the water agency here ran piped water down our county road I decided to buy in. I needed to run 600 feet of piping from the newly installed meter to my house. I bought two 300 foot rolls of polyurethane 1inch pipe. Not an easy job when the weather is cold as polyethylene pipe doesn’t want to unroll. I have one connection at the meter one coupling connection and one at the house. I put down markers where the pipe is joined together with a stainless steel coupler and clamps in case I have an issue there. Poly pipe is tough to work with. I used a torch to soften it when connecting any fittings.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by masraum

Interesting. Do you use the same fittings and glue it the same as other PVC? Flexible would definitely be easier.

The short answer is "yes". HD used to sell it in 18" lengths with couplings on both ends. Made pipe repairs a breeze. They might still sell it but easier to make your own.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs

When the water agency here ran piped water down our county road I decided to buy in. I needed to run 600 feet of piping from the newly installed meter to my house. I bought two 300 foot rolls of polyurethane 1inch pipe. Not an easy job when the weather is cold as polyethylene pipe doesn’t want to unroll. I have one connection at the meter one coupling connection and one at the house. I put down markers where the pipe is joined together with a stainless steel coupler and clamps in case I have an issue there. Poly pipe is tough to work with. I used a torch to soften it when connecting any fittings.

I noted that in the videos a torch was often used to heat the pipe when installing a coupler. I assume it would be a bit easier to work with in the heat of the summer after sitting in the sun a bit. "They" said that the high pressure stuff was stiffer and harder to work with than the low pressure.

Originally Posted by craigster59

The short answer is "yes". HD used to sell it in 18" lengths with couplings on both ends. Made pipe repairs a breeze. They might still sell it but easier to make your own.

Convenience often costs quite a bit more than doing it yourself, and sometimes doing it yourself isn't that hard. I usually opt for diy to save the money.