Fixing an Electrical Problem

[stevej37]

Overhead kitchen light stopped working yesterday. It's a stained glass bottom with rectangular wood frame that houses 4-48" fluorescent bulbs.
Been at least 20 years with the same bulbs, so I bought 4 new led T8/T12's.

Installed them...no light.
Checked wall switch...voltage is good
Tightened all the connections for the switch, the two ballasts and the ceiling wires...no go
Figured the ballasts (must be bad because of age)

Before I started removing the ballasts, I checked for voltage at the ceiling connection.
No voltage

Ah ha!....took the wires off the wall switch and put one in that I had as an extra.

Let there be light!!

So happy that I didn't cut the wires to the ballasts....not fun wiring new ones in.

[masraum]

Nice, congrats on the relatively simple fix!

[stevej37]

^^^ Thanks...when I probed the switch and found voltage...I kinda eliminated that as the problem.
A mistake, I'm sure. But I'm not very good with electrical stuff.
That's the first plain wall switch that has died on me.

[Zeke]

They do every now and then and it's a good thing it completely failed. Next time kill the breaker and use a meter for continuity. In fact, you might play around with the old switch and see what it does while using a meter. I can't help myself even to this day from whacking them open to see the failure point.

[rwest]

Steve,

Check your bulbs and see if they will run without a ballast. You would need to re-wire the fixture, but it gets the ballasts out of there and gives you one less failure point and should make them more energy efficient and possibly quieter as some ballasts buzz.

[stevej37]

^^^
The bulbs came as 2 in each pack and I read the cardboard before buying. They said how they could replace the larger bulbs (which I had) and that a ballast was needed.

I did notice that with the cover back on....they are brighter than the old bigger ones were.
I like that because the light is only used when bright light is needed. Otherwise the window and range light are enough.

[stevej37]

Originally Posted by Zeke

They do every now and then and it's a good thing it completely failed. Next time kill the breaker and use a meter for continuity. In fact, you might play around with the old switch and see what it does while using a meter. I can't help myself even to this day from whacking them open to see the failure point.

I killed the breaker only when I found no voltage at the ceiling connection. That made it easy to change the wall switch out.

The wall switch was in a dual box with another switch....that one was working fine.
That's prob why I never thought it might be the switch. (that's my excuse anyway)

.

[jyl]

Have you thought about LED replacement for those tubes? I’m a big fan of LEDs!

[stevej37]

^^^ Yes...that's what I picked up today for replacement. The label says led T8 light.
They are about half the dia. of my old ones....but much brighter. I like them.

The guy said they would work...the pins are all that matters. He was right.
Plus...they were inexpensive. $20 for four tubes.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

You went from an old school F-40 CW to T8/T12.
I'm thinking you need a T-8?T12 ballast

[stevej37]

^^^ Yes, I didn't need to change the two ballasts.
I was hesitant to buy the led bulbs, but the guy assured me that they would work.

With the old bulbs, when I flipped the switch, two bulbs would flicker and light. The other two bulbs would take a couple seconds, flicker, and light.

These new led bulbs are all four at full brightness instantly...a very nice change. And they are brighter than the old ones.

.

[stevej37]

Pics of light on and off.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by stevej37

^^^ Yes, I didn't need to change the two ballasts.
I was hesitant to buy the led bulbs, but the guy assured me that they would work.

With the old bulbs, when I flipped the switch, two bulbs would flicker and light. The other two bulbs would take a couple seconds, flicker, and light.

These new led bulbs are all four at full brightness instantly...a very nice change. And they are brighter than the old ones.

.

Good LEDs beat the pants off of flourescent!

[stevej37]

^^^ And they are about half the diameter.

Glad that I didn't have to put new ballasts in. There has to 16 or 20 wires that have to be cut and spliced in for the change. My neck is sore just thinking of it.

.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by stevej37

^^^ And they are about half the diameter.

Glad that I didn't have to put new ballasts in. There has to 16 or 20 wires that have to be cut and spliced in for the change. My neck is sore just thinking of it.

.

Most of them never go back in it you use ballast bypass lamps. The most you need within the fixture is 2 from the source to one tombstone or both if you want to do it that way. The original hard wires were for high voltage and can be tossed. I find it easy to leave a stub out from the tombstone and just wire nut it.

Note, the original wiring in the housing are too short to make a run from one end to the other, so using some new wire off a spool makes it go fast and is a clean installation.

Do one and the rest you can do on autopilot.

The reason LED replacement still work with the ballast is that a ballast settees down to line voltage after start up requirement voltage for the old fluorescent lamps, but the new lamps have to be designed to handle the surge. With LED the ballast is extra baggage.

I get rid of them as they can still go completely bad, not just weaken. They buzz too.

[stevej37]

^^^
If they do start buzzing...I'll yank them out. I was surprised when I took the cover off how they looked like new and no sign of leaking.
One of the tombstones had a small chip broken out....but still enough to hold that bulb. I wonder if they sell single tombstones?

[Zeke]

Yes, you can buy tombstone replacements.

[stevej37]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Yes, you can buy tombstone replacements.

Thanks...I just now looked on Amazon and will order a pair of them.(smallest am't I see is two)
I'm assuming if I leave my ballasts as they are...I need to order the non-shunted ones? (they have both)
.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by stevej37

Thanks...I just now looked on Amazon and will order a pair of them.(smallest am't I see is two)
I'm assuming if I leave my ballasts as they are...I need to order the non-shunted ones? (they have both)
.

I can't say as I don't know the fixture. Here's the explanation:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/land/when-to-use-shunted-vs-nonshunted-lampholders-with-your-t8s?wickedsource=google&wickedid=Cj0KCQiAvOjKBhC9ARIsAFvz5lhRLR7bWQSOG4tLI 9unG5C3lEVChtfXxuq4KGqOL2isQqY62NP68eYaAhKMEALw_wc B&wickedid=&wcid=17788415461&wv=4&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21168757371&gbraid=0AAAAAD_uQn7S60T3amzVBxxinMCk8LDJ8&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvOjKBhC9ARIsAFvz5lhRLR7bWQSOG4tLI9un G5C3lEVChtfXxuq4KGqOL2isQqY62NP68eYaAhKMEALw_wcB

And here is the image:



So I'd say if one wire to each requires the shunted.

[stevej37]

^^^ Mine have two to each end...so I'll get the non-shunted. That bulb seems to be held good....but I could see it slipping out from vibrations.