Li-ion battery report - 1000 batteries analyzed

[masraum]

Interesting stuff.

And this isn't just for small flashlights that use this particular size battery. Many other Li-Ion batteries are actually made of bundled 18650s.

DEFINITELY DON'T BUY cheap Li-ion batteries! They have horrible QA/QC and are much more poorly/inconsistently made than the name brands, and many/most/all of them DO NOT HAVE SAFETY features that the name brands have.

the report is here.
https://7802750.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/7802750/White%20Papers%20and%20Guides/Batteries/Lumafield%20Battery%20Report.pdf

Adam Savage talks to the people that made the report


Milwaukee M12 batteries are bundled 18650 batteries, and they aren't the only ones.

[Cajundaddy]

Yep, a lot of shady stuff coming out of China with the potential to burn down your house.

I have used Eneloop rechargeable batteries in cameras and other devices. Love these. They are made in Japan by Panasonic and have been 100% excellent for maybe 10 years. Up to 2000 charge cycles, very consistent voltage, never leak and destroy a nice camera or other electronic device.

Choose wisely.

[bugstrider]

Originally Posted by masraum

Interesting stuff.

And this isn't just for small flashlights that use this particular size battery. Many other Li-Ion batteries are actually made of bundled 18650s.

DEFINITELY DON'T BUY cheap Li-ion batteries! They have horrible QA/QC and are much more poorly/inconsistently made than the name brands, and many/most/all of them DO NOT HAVE SAFETY features that the name brands have.

the report is here.
https://7802750.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/7802750/White%20Papers%20and%20Guides/Batteries/Lumafield%20Battery%20Report.pdf

Adam Savage talks to the people that made the report


Milwaukee M12 batteries are bundled 18650 batteries, and they aren't the only ones.

They attributed a battery related fire that occurred on the dive boat that killed many divers at the Channel Islands several years ago.

Thermal runaway is a real threat. It’s amazing how large of a chemical fire footprint a AA Li-ion battery causes when it blows.


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[greglepore]

LOL. Not just power tools,older Tesla's use batteries that are modules of 44 18650's, and the battery pack is 16 of those, so around 7k batteries. They've moved to larger cells in more recent packs.

[GH85Carrera]

The real takeaway is to just bite the bullet, and buy the name brand units from authorized dealers. The cheaper non brand ones can burn your house down.

I have several M-12 tools and three batteries that came with the tools. It is just amazing to me that they can sit in my tool box for a couple of months, and then have full power, and work all day long. I have NiCad drill drivers and even when new the batteries lose charge sitting in the drawer.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by greglepore

LOL. Not just power tools,older Tesla's use batteries that are modules of 44 18650's, and the battery pack is 16 of those, so around 7k batteries. They've moved to larger cells in more recent packs.

And I'm sure that this issue isn't limited to 18650s. That's just what they checked.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Yep, a lot of shady stuff coming out of China with the potential to burn down your house.

I have used Eneloop rechargeable batteries in cameras and other devices. Love these. They are made in Japan by Panasonic and have been 100% excellent for maybe 10 years. Up to 2000 charge cycles, very consistent voltage, never leak and destroy a nice camera or other electronic device.

Choose wisely.

As do I.Great PSA!

My emergency services office just hosted a training session on dealing with these fires. The was fairly wide ranging but emphasized using the manufacturer's battery, storing them properly and what to do when they pop off.

The FD stated that a continuous stream of water is the best way to deal with an EV fire. When these things fail and go into a runaway reaction, they produce their own oxygen so they're a self-sustaining fire.

Obviously for the home use batteries if you can manage it safely, they say just get it out of the house into an area where nothing else can burn and if at all safely possible drop it into a bucket of water. I currently store all of mine in steel ammo boxes inside a steel cabinet.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

The real takeaway is to just bite the bullet, and buy the name brand units from authorized dealers. The cheaper non brand ones can burn your house down.

I have several M-12 tools and three batteries that came with the tools. It is just amazing to me that they can sit in my tool box for a couple of months, and then have full power, and work all day long. I have NiCad drill drivers and even when new the batteries lose charge sitting in the drawer.

Agree, the corollary is that there are a lot of fakes out there.

~8 yrs ago i bought what I thought was a genuine Dewalt 18v Li battery, it died after 6mo, when I brought it to the Dewalt store they were able to show me the very subtle but distinct differences between the fake I had and a real one.

So far in 20yrs of use I've had 1 Ryobi 40v die and that was a refurbished one that I got by accident, currently have 3 genuine ones that are on the way out, all from, 8 to 10 yrs old

[Cajundaddy]

Thinking strictly about the 18650 used in cordless tools. All of mine are Makita made in Japan except an E-bike battery. That one is made by Giant in Taiwan and *could* have Chinese batteries. It is also a huge battery with a ton of energy. Maybe time to store these in an outdoor shed that is not attached to the house.

[masraum]

This all makes me wonder what the best place is to charge and/or store these batteries (tools, phones, tablets, etc...). On a workbench or shelf seems like a bad spot to charge them. In your home seems like a bad place to charge most of them (not really going to get around that for phones, tablets, etc...).

So for tools, maybe inside a metal box or cabinet/shelf system, but not mixed with flammable chemicals.

For inside the home, probably in a metal box. It seems the likelihood of issues with cell phones, watches, tablets is likely MUCH lower, but never 0.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Agree, the corollary is that there are a lot of fakes out there.

~8 yrs ago i bought what I thought was a genuine Dewalt 18v Li battery, it died after 6mo, when I brought it to the Dewalt store they were able to show me the very subtle but distinct differences between the fake I had and a real one.

So far in 20yrs of use I've had 1 Ryobi 40v die and that was a refurbished one that I got by accident, currently have 3 genuine ones that are on the way out, all from, 8 to 10 yrs old

I have had some Milwaukee M12 batteries die (usable life was VERY short, but still worked). I bought, what I believe is a genuine M12. If it's fake, it's VERY well done, battery, packaging, etc..., and the price wasn't "too good to be true".

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Thinking strictly about the 18650 used in cordless tools. All of mine are Makita made in Japan except an E-bike battery. That one is made by Giant in Taiwan and *could* have Chinese batteries. It is also a huge battery with a ton of energy. Maybe time to store these in an outdoor shed that is not attached to the house.

And "made in China" is not necessarily a guaranty that you're getting a cheap, poorly made battery if the company that has it made insists upon high standards, but yeah, it seems like it would be a good idea to store it away form the home. I need to come up with a better way to store mine. Even a quality battery can have an issue. QA/QC isn't a guaranty that 100% of the items are perfect and couldn't have an issue after years of use.

[wdfifteen]

Is there a list somewhere of “good” brands and brands to avoid? All of my rechargeable AAA and AA size batteries are Eneloop, but they are 10 years old or so. I need to get current with the rechargeable battery scene (see what I did there?) before I buy replacements.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by masraum

I have had some Milwaukee M12 batteries die (usable life was VERY short, but still worked). I bought, what I believe is a genuine M12. If it's fake, it's VERY well done, battery, packaging, etc..., and the price wasn't "too good to be true".

The only oe Li I had die too soon was for a Dyson vac, oe, one lasted ~1 tr, the replacement is now 3ys old and going strong.

I bought the replace off Amazon after a lot of searching and just flipped a coin for the final purchase

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by masraum

This all makes me wonder what the best place is to charge and/or store these batteries (tools, phones, tablets, etc...). On a workbench or shelf seems like a bad spot to charge them. In your home seems like a bad place to charge most of them (not really going to get around that for phones, tablets, etc...).

So for tools, maybe inside a metal box or cabinet/shelf system, but not mixed with flammable chemicals.

For inside the home, probably in a metal box. It seems the likelihood of issues with cell phones, watches, tablets is likely MUCH lower, but never 0.

That's what I do for ALL mine and the FD recommends. You must also prevent them from freezing and anything that would damage the separator between anode and cathode.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

That's what I do for ALL mine and the FD recommends. You must also prevent them from freezing and anything that would damage the separator between anode and cathode.

I've had my M12 batteries in the house, and have always thought it may not be a good idea.

I've always had my Ryobi 18V outside. I keep them plugged in. I assume that means that they've frozen unless having them plugged in keeps them from freezing.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The only oe Li I had die too soon was for a Dyson vac, oe, one lasted ~1 tr, the replacement is now 3ys old and going strong.

I bought the replace off Amazon after a lot of searching and just flipped a coin for the final purchase

I did the same for our Dyson hand-held. (A really handy tool around the house.

[Zeke]

I recently bought M12's at HD. I hope they are genuine. Genuine what, IDK, but I'd like to think I don't have to store them outside in a metal box. Maybe it wasn't wise to leave the receipt in the drawer with the batteries.

I hate computers and TMI. I think I should become fat, drunk and stupid. Don't worry, be happy.

[bugstrider]

What is also an eye opener, is the number of calls that the Fire Department responds to regarding garage fires caused by tool batteries being charged in tool boxes or on walls line we all do….

I now only charge when I am at home and present. This personal rule applies to all of our rechargeable stuff. Even when we need to throw on the Simply Safe camera battery. We can only do what we can to reduce the risk without living in a protective bubble of plastic.
(Which will melt in a fire, so we’re screwed )

https://www.usfa.fema.gov/a-z/lithium-ion-batteries/

[bugstrider]

Originally Posted by masraum

So for tools, maybe inside a metal box or cabinet/shelf system, but not mixed with flammable chemicals.
0.

Like all situations, it has created an entirely new industry Tow companies are now using shipping containers that have been modified to open from the top, sealed and filled with water. So when they bring in an electric car involved in a wreck, and there is the slightest possibility of thermal runaway, they will drop the car into the container, submerging the vehicle and sealing it up to let it cook under water.

And now there are arguments against doing that.

Clear as mud…..

https://internationalfireandsafetyjournal.com/time-to-retire-submersion-tactics-why-water-tanks-fail-to-stop-lithium-ion-battery-incidents/


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