Serial/Series Hybrids

[schwarz633]

I'm in the market for a two row SUV and am giving some serious consideration to a hybrid. I really like the concept of the Toyota Synergy Drive eCVT non-turbo drive train used in the RAV4 and CX-50, but each of them has some things I don't like.

I've recently read about the Nissan Rogue coming out with their ePower serial/series hybrid where the gas engine only drives a generator, not the wheels. There is a small battery connected to two electric motors, one for the front axle, one for the rear. It's supposed to drive like an EV. Hyundai is also introducing a similar system (EREV) in the Santa Fe.

I would only consider a hybrid with no clutches and no conventional automatic transmission. Basically, no friction material to wear. The serial/series hybrids and the Toyota Synergy Drive meet that criteria.

Any thoughts?

[aschen]

Toyota synergy drive is the most elegant design in automotive engineering in the modern era.

We have a hybrid Highlander, system works great in it. 3 row suv that gets 37-38 mpg for us. Not exciting of course. Execution is always more important than architecture and I personally wouldn't go with any new system from nissan or kia. Toyota is on like 5th generation hybrid or more.

bmw i3 and fisker karama were series hybrid.

[masraum]

In the last 10-20 years, I haven't heard anything good about Nissan. I'd avoid the Rogue.

I do feel like the non-ICE car that I'd be most likely to buy if I had to would be a hybrid of some sort. I haven't looked into all of the sorts. It would be nice to not have to worry about a bad trans, so something like you describe seems like a good way to go if you're considering something that's not just ICE.

[David]

I agree with avoiding new technology until proven and Nissan.

I think there a recent thread on hybrids and eCVT's. I hadn't known how they worked until recently and was really impressed with the technology. Unlike a CVT the eCVT only has planetary gears and not a transmission of any type.

[David]

I agree with avoiding new technology until proven and Nissan.

I think there a recent thread on hybrids and eCVT's. I hadn't known how they worked until recently and was really impressed with the technology. Unlike a CVT the eCVT only has planetary gears and not a transmission of any type.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by schwarz633

I would only consider a hybrid with no clutches and no conventional automatic transmission. Basically, no friction material to wear. The serial/series hybrids and the Toyota Synergy Drive meet that criteria.

If you're after high mpg, reliability/durability, Toyota/Lexus is your brand. Throw in high resale value, too.

[wdfifteen]

I can attest to the "rubber band" feel of a hybrid. When our Volt is in gas engine mode the engine runs, but most of the time there is no correlation between the engine speed and ground speed. The engine changes speed seemingly randomly. It feels weird, but it's not so bothersome that they need to unnecessarily cycle the engine speed to make it feel more conventional like Ford does. Not for me, anyway.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by masraum

In the last 10-20 years, I haven't heard anything good about Nissan. I'd avoid the Rogue.

I do feel like the non-ICE car that I'd be most likely to buy if I had to would be a hybrid of some sort. I haven't looked into all of the sorts. It would be nice to not have to worry about a bad trans, so something like you describe seems like a good way to go if you're considering something that's not just ICE.

We will never own another Nissan, nor will our daughter.

[Zeke]

My neighbor owns the VW version of the 2 row. I can say I don't hate the look of it but I've never been inside it much less been for a ride.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by flipper35

We will never own another Nissan, nor will our daughter.

I could have written the same sentence but without nother and with everything after Nissan deleted.

[schwarz633]

The Nissan hate is strong in this thread. My previous vehicle was a 2004 FX35, which I had for close to 20 years and 120K miles. The only things I ever replaced were brakes and a muffler. The SE Wisconsin salt finally took it's toll with a rear coil spring shooting out the bottom of the lower control arm. I was all set to replace the control arms, but the shop called me up and said they couldn't safely lift the car. The exterior looked great, but the underside was pretty rotten.

I realize Nissan has had reliability issues with the conventional CVT's and the VC-Turbo engines. This new Rogue ePower hybrid doesn't have either of those, so I'll at least take a look at one when they become available. For now I'm driving my 2001 Audi TT 225HP Quattro (56K miles) that I had stored for 10 years.

As far as Toyota/Lexus is concerned, I don't have a local Lexus dealer and the Toyotas seem to be in short supply and selling for all the money. For some unknown reason I've never been able to warm up to being a Toyota owner.

[Alan A]

20 year old Nissan cars are not the same as the current ones. But as you’ve already decided I’ll wish you the very best of luck.

I will say I drove the PHEV Mazda 70 and couldn’t get out of it fast enough. Horrible horrible drive compared to the regular mild hybrid thing they normalized for the rest of the range, so if that’s what you drove as a 50 I can see why you’d hate it.

[Steve Carlton]

What dealers are within your range? How many years and miles to hope to get out of the car? Would you consider an EV?

Probably around 2018 when I was a sales manager at a Volvo dealer, we had a Nissan Murano AWD with 50k miles on it. The transmission and AWD unit were bad. That's when my hatred of Nissan developed. I had tremendous affection for Datsun, though. Anything you get can be covered with an extended service contract (warranty), up to 10 years/150,000 miles these days. Personally, I don't like being outside of warranty and I don't want to worry about coming up with many thousands of dollars all of a sudden. An extended service contract can level the playing field, allowing you to get most any brand you want, with hassle and resale value being the negative against some serious positives.

I consider Nissan and Mitsubishi to be the bottom rungs of the Japanese cars, reliability-wise. I put Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura at the top, along with Subaru's recent arrival. And Mazda in the middle. Not sure where to place Hyundai and Kia. I've heard a lot of horror stories. Just my feelings, not well-founded in data.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by schwarz633

The Nissan hate is strong in this thread. My previous vehicle was a 2004 FX35, which I had for close to 20 years and 120K miles. The only things I ever replaced were brakes and a muffler. The SE Wisconsin salt finally took it's toll with a rear coil spring shooting out the bottom of the lower control arm. I was all set to replace the control arms, but the shop called me up and said they couldn't safely lift the car. The exterior looked great, but the underside was pretty rotten.

I realize Nissan has had reliability issues with the conventional CVT's and the VC-Turbo engines. This new Rogue ePower hybrid doesn't have either of those, so I'll at least take a look at one when they become available. For now I'm driving my 2001 Audi TT 225HP Quattro (56K miles) that I had stored for 10 years.

As far as Toyota/Lexus is concerned, I don't have a local Lexus dealer and the Toyotas seem to be in short supply and selling for all the money. For some unknown reason I've never been able to warm up to being a Toyota owner.

Nissan was still making good cars in the early 2000s. We had an Armada, Quest, and my son had a Pathfinder, all were good. They have seriously cheaped out since then. Nissans are the last thing I’ll go for in the rental car aisle.

[Alan A]

Nissan has (imo at least) overtaken Mitsubishi - because there aren't any around here any more - selling cars to the sub-500 FICO crowd. They are one step above buy here pay here lots.

[aschen]

Early 2000s was peak automobile reliability era for most (non German) mft

If you live in a place where everything is gonna rust to hell in a decade it doesnt really matter anyways.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by aschen

Early 2000s was peak automobile reliability era for most (non German) mft

If you live in a place where everything is gonna rust to hell in a decade it doesnt really matter anyways.

Also a valid point. Even Toyotas aren’t what they used to be.

[Dixie]

I drive a hybrid. It burns gas and rubber.

[Steve Carlton]

I got a Chevy ZL1 too!