SUVs technically banned in CA

[mikester]

Originally posted by Spud
"whew! no I'll get off my soap box." ... gee, thanks for that.

"It's stated in every driver's license test - Driving is a priviledge and not a right.

You don't have the right to drive a vehicle that is heavier than the road you're on was designed to accept."

- Are you serious? This is total blather, please explain to me how someone driving a Surburban ruins the highway anymore than a passenger car? A big rig I can see, weighing in at 80,000 lbs, but a Surburban? No. Don't buy it. And "driving" is the priviledge, not what I "drive", this is still America, and I do get to choose.

If there are tax breaks and different emmissions regulations for SUVs then address those with your congressman. Don't take my right to tow my race car from me because you percieve some imbalance between the way passenger cars and SUVs are treated and built. Why not call for the bumpers on passenger cars to be raised? Makes as much sense...

"Don't try to tell me that 95% of Suburbans, Hummers, Expiditions, etc aren't used as passenger vehicles."

- Sure they are, but then I also tow a race car and a boat with my SUV, so what concern is it of yours? How do you proppose I get my boat to the lake?

So banjomike what kind of millage does your 911 get? I know my MFI 2.2S gets about 18-20mpg (not very cleanly either!) My 2004 Suburban is getting 16.7mpg, and I'm willing to bet pollutes less than either of our 911s. So which cars should be off the road?

It isn't blather, not at all. I did not say that a 6000 vehicle didn't belong on the highway - ever. I said that it didn't belong in a residential street that wasn't designed to handle that much weight as often as we ask it to with these SUVs.

And to respond - How do I expect YOU to tow your race car and your boat? Well - I expect YOU to use your suburban becauase clearly you need it. More often than not however people who have these SUVs don't have anything to two, don't have any roads that need taming and don't use it for anything more than going to and from work with just themselves or a couple others as passengers. While your cargo needs clearly justify the need - most others don't.

I don't intend to advocate that these vehicles should be banned but I think that if the user isn't using them for some commercial purpose that justifies their tax exemptions then they shouldn't be classified as commercial vehicles and they should be held to the same standards that passenger autos and small trucks are held.

[84porsche]

Originally posted by banjomike
Bumpers don't match up with other cars increasing damage from minor accidents. Lights are much higher than allowed on cars, blinding traffic.

I must say I agree with this. I had an accident last November and my car slid under the rear bumper of an older Suburban with steel bumpers. The Suburban caused a 3-car collision in front of me leaving me no place to go so half my car hit the wall and the other half was under the Suburban with the hood, lights and engine bay completely folded to the windshield locking up the driver door and destroying everything along the way. I was lucky to not have been seriously injured but this is just one reason why I don't think SUVs are necessarily the safest vehicles on the road.

[Spud]

84porsche, I'm sorry to hear of your accident. But I gotta say this sounds odd "The Suburban caused a 3-car collision in front"... The Suburban did not cause the accident, the driver did. Would things have been better if the car in front was an old Pinto (boom!)? I don't think so. Whose car was unsafe in the accident? I'd argue yours since it sounds like you sustained more damage, narrowly escaping injury (thank goodness). But what if the car in front was a Yugo? Might you have injured the driver/passengers of that car?

"I don't think SUVs are necessarily the safest vehicles on the road."

Slippery slope...

[Spud]

You guys keep talking about the "tax advantages" of these vehicles, you do realize these tax breaks are only available self employed people who claim these as business vehicles right? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say not everyone that buys an SUV is self employed.

"Hummers exceed the 6000lbs unladen and Santa Monica PD Traffic has know that they are in violation since 1997 When I called and spoke to the Sgt in Charge of traffic. I was nearly run over by a Hummer on seventh st hill. That street is posted no vehicles over 600l0bs."

Uh, the 2004 H2 Hummer has a Curb Weight of 6400lbs, I guess they should be rounding those up down there when they dare to drive on Seventh St. Hill eh? Sheesh...

And people claim Bush is killing our civil liberties...

[ronin]

to boot, 84. in Washington State you would have been cited for following too close (as you obviously didn't have time to stop) and would therefore be considered as having contributed to the accident

[dd74]

As is, SUVs, if we all outlast their existence, probably won't be produced in their current form in three to five years' time. They certainly were a product of the bigger is better 90s, and now have grown out of fashion with a different driving population who realize SUVs as poor mileage inefficient road-going menaces. People want hybrids now, or at least more economical vehicles, and that hinges toward smaller wagons or smaller SUVs like the Escape, CRV, et al.

A poster earlier asked Banjomike about the gas mileage and clean-air ability of his older Porsche compared to a modern SUV. I purposely put myself in the same position last week when a driver of an Excursion yelled down at me, "Your old Porsche probably pollutes like crazy, huh?" And I basically told him that I bet my Porsche pollutes less and gets better mileage than the hog he's driving in. But you know, I sort of think I might be wrong about that. Continual refinement of the V8 engine found in most SUVs get respectable hp and mileage in the same stroke. My engine stopped being refined the day it was made.

[ubiquity0]

My 911 emissions test results were considerably cleaner than the statewide average vehicle. Given that the average vehicle on the road here is 5-6 years old I don’t think it’s a given that the modern supersize SUVs running around emit less pollutants than a well-tuned older Porsche, especially when you consider banjomike’s point that the pollutants are presented as a fraction of the exhaust volume, & most SUV’s have monster displacements.
Comer to think of it, does the statewide average include SUV’s? They have more lenient emissions standards don’t they? If that was the case I imagine the SUV average would be worse.

[84porsche]

Originally posted by Spud
84porsche, I'm sorry to hear of your accident. But I gotta say this sounds odd "The Suburban caused a 3-car collision in front"... The Suburban did not cause the accident, the driver did. Would things have been better if the car in front was an old Pinto (boom!)? I don't think so. Whose car was unsafe in the accident? I'd argue yours since it sounds like you sustained more damage, narrowly escaping injury (thank goodness). But what if the car in front was a Yugo? Might you have injured the driver/passengers of that car?

Well as far as the accident was concerned. I saw the colllision as I was switching lanes however I manuevered for the shoulder and hit the wall first and then my car slid a short distance and hit the Suburban. But you are right the other driver caused the accident not the vehicle itself. Had it be another car I probably would have been able to open my door and get out of the car because of the 5-10 mph crash guards on the bumper. The bumper height of the Suburban caused my vehicle to be destroyed.

"I don't think SUVs are necessarily the safest vehicles on the road." - when I say this I am referring to the height of these vehicles compared to cars. SUVs are large vehicles and obviously weigh more and can cause more damage to ordinary vehicles. My car did what it was supposed to crumple at the crumple zones.

Ronin, I wasn't cited but in the police report, I was deemed partially responsible for my acccident for following too closely even though I was switching lanes in traffic.

[ronin]

ah, understood. looks like the p-car gods were smiling on you that day

[Serge914]

Many peoples predicts that gas price will double in the next 5 years and we will be lucky if there are no shortage. Hopefully that will solve many of the problems associated with the big SUV and pick-up trucks. They will still be on the road but those driving them will have a good reason .

[mikester]

I think we're going through something similar to what happened right before the oil embargo of the '70s. Then the big land yacht was king as is the case now - the styles just a bit different.

The next big craze is already hitting and that's PZEV vehicles.

I take the bus.

[MFAFF]

Hang about guys.....if the roads are designed to a certain weight bearing capacity then it makes sense to restrict the weight of the vehicles using those roads.

That they are SUVs or other makes no difference. If residential roads in CA are built to a 6000lb vehicle weight criteria then all types of vehicles over that weight should not be allowed to use it regularly.

That same criteria was used as a defintion of a commercial vehicle.

Maybe both are now out of date.....

I love SUVs especially when I'm in the P car as I know full well that no matter how irrational me drivng a P-car is, driving an SUV around the streets of London makes evne less sense.