Belonged to a Medal of Honor receipiant

tabs · 06-01-2005, 03:19 PM

Here is a rifle that belonged to Seventh Calvary Trooper, who won the MH at the Battle of the Little Big Horn...

FrayAdjacent911 · 06-01-2005, 03:20 PM

Springfield Trap door? Who was it that carried it? How was it verified? I thought they were all pretty much mounted calvalry, and thus would be carrying carbines.

Interesting... but for slugging the large caliber lead, I like my Sharps.

tabs · 03:34 PM

This came from a family member.....The Troopers name was Otto Voit....he was one of the 4 Sharpshooters who kept up fire on the indians while a group of 24 Troopers went down a ravine for water...Voit spent 30 years in the 7th Cav...starting in 1866 and finishing in 1896...he was at the Wa****a, Yellowstone expedition, BlackHills expedition, Little Big Horn, Canyon Creek (Nez Pearce), White Clay Creek,( Wounded Knee)and finally chasing renegade Apaches in Arizona in the 1890's...he died in 1906...

The rifle is a 50/70 Second Allin Conversion Trapdoor...

tabs · 06-01-2005, 03:45 PM

There were 6 Springfield 50/70's at the Defensive fight....one belonged to Captain French....who shot at an Indian 6 times and missed, where upon he gave up on the rifle and a SGT Ryan got ahold of it...

However there were no 50/70 cartridges found in the CO H area where Voit fought....so?????It is doubtfull he carried this rifle at the LBH...If it could be forensically proven to have been at the Battle...it would be the only gun known to have been owned by a MH winner....and be DIRECTLY tied to a known participant...there are several other Carbines that are indirectly tied to participants with initials carved into the stocks...

FrayAdjacent911 · 06-01-2005, 04:50 PM

tabs,

That's pretty cool! Wish I had some family heirlooms like that.

I do recall some documentary on the History Channel called 'battlefield detectives' or something. Maybe you could find out who produced it, and get in touch with the team? Maybe they'd be able to run some ballistic tests and see if any of the bullets or cartridge casings may be from that rifle.

tabs · 06-01-2005, 04:56 PM

I have allready talked to those folks....they won't test anymore rifles for love nor money....

tabs · 06-01-2005, 04:56 PM

BTW...I'm not related....but the woman who I got it from was...

FrayAdjacent911 · 06-01-2005, 05:08 PM

Ahh..

If the rifle did, verifiably, belong to a medal of honor recipient, I wonder why they'd blow you off? I'd be damn curious. Oh well.

I'd just enjoy owning a peice of history.

tabs · 06-01-2005, 06:03 PM

Because they (NPS employees) don't want their Historical research turned into BIG $$$$$$$$$$......For awhile they were charging $500 a pop to do the testing, and they were overwhelmed with repuests.....so they stopped....

Drago · Drago's Garage

Very cool Tabby...I wish my Trapdoor was as rare as yours.

tabs · 06-03-2005, 02:00 AM

Nobody would give this rifle a second look if it's provnence wasn't known....it would just be another $200 wall hanger.

The rifle shows hard frontier use but no real abuse...which is very typical of a arm owned by someone on the frontier

Jeff Higgins · 06-03-2005, 10:29 AM

First Seargant Ryan is a very interesting story himself. John Schofstall from C. Sharps Arms ran a whole series on his career, gleaned from his personal journal, several years ago. I'm currently reading a book I acquired outside of the Crazy Horse memorial (not an "official" part of it or affiliated with their gift shop) that gives the Sioux account of the Battle of the Greasy Grass and the events leading up to it. I bought it from the son of the author, a member of the Sioux tribe, who earned a doctorate in Indian studies. He has gathered all of the old verbal traditions and history preserved within the tribes. He even states he consulted some spirit help to fill in the blanks. Fascinating history, both from our side from men like Ryan, and from the Indian side (I don't have the book in front of me, and I forget the doctor's name). Rifles like this, and the men that carried and used them, are incredibly fascinating to me. Cool rifle, Tabs; congratulations.

FrayAdjacent911 · 06-03-2005, 10:50 AM

I too find rifles like that interesting. The 19th century was a fascinating time for firearms development. From the Civil War, up until the turn of the century, there were great technological strides. Trapdoors and conversion like this one were some of the first cartridge rifles. I particularly like the Sharps falling block type. It's just so fascinating what they came up with back then... cartridges, revolvers, turnbolt action, lever actions...

My particular interest is a little later in history, though. I use my Curio and Relic Collector's license to collect WWII era rifles. I already have in my stable an M1, No4Mk1 Enfield, M1938 Mosin Nagant, M44 Mosin Nagant and a couple Swiss K31s (ok, not WWII really, but still very interesting rifles!). I just received today an Australian made No1MkIII with a bayonet. She looks like a turd, but I'll get her cleaned up and looking pretty like her younger sister.

gaijindabe · 06-03-2005, 10:56 AM

My gandmother's uncle (or so goes the family story..) from the losing side of the Battle of Little Big Horn:

http://www.great-race.com/myles.html

tabs · 06-03-2005, 02:12 PM

I also have a fair number of interesting Springfield International and National Match rifles from before WW2...

Keogh was the ONLY 7th Cav member with Custer not to be mutilated....even Custer had his eardrums pierced...the Indians felt that the Papal Medal was big medicine.

The question is at the end did Custer kill himself....the Indians had no idea they were fighting Custer....he had a gunshot wound to the temple along with one through the left breast...and he wasn't mutilated except for his ear drums being pierced....the Indians didn't mutilate suicides...

After the battle Captain Benteen, Lt Godfrey and 14 Troopers from Co H were the first White men to survey the massacre site...Pvt Windrolph was among them...Otto Voit along with Windrolph and 2 others (all Benteens CO H men) were the Sharpsshooters that kept the indians heads down while the Troopers went for water....so it stands to reason that Voit was among the 14 Troopers to accompany Benteen and Godfrey....

gaijindabe · 06-03-2005, 02:34 PM

I like this ending better:

...or it may have been that he died like a true warrior: his pistol blazing to the last round. As one Indian survivor of the battle later said of Keogh: "Like the flame of a coal blazed his eyes. His teeth glistened like a fighting grizzly."