U.S. Toll now 2,000, however...

[dd74]

The Iraqi draft constitution did pass leading the way to democracy...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/25/iraq.main/index.html

So without being provocative, is the loss worth the gain so far?

[Jamie79SC]

You betcha!

The US can now fold up our tents and go home. Iraq is the new bastion of democracy in the middle east. Other middle eastern countries are clamering to become democracies just like Iraq. We can all be proud of the great accomplishment of our brave leaders!

[Mulhollanddose]

So are the Democrats going to have a ticker-tape parade through the streets of New York?...marching bands, balloons of targeted Republicans, beer, chaps, riots and communist peace-protestors?

[pwd72s]

"without being provocative"????

[dd74]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
So are the Democrats going to have a ticker-tape parade through the streets of New York?...marching bands, balloons of targeted Republicans, beer, chaps, riots and communist peace-protestors?

Dude, you're hopeless. I wrote "without being provocative."

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by dd74
Dude, you're hopeless. I wrote "without being provocative."

I can't help myself.

[dd74]

Originally posted by pwd72s
"without being provocative"????

Try it, if you have anything to add...

[Mulhollanddose]

Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq’s WMD capability—which was essentially destroyed in 1991—after sanctions were removed and Iraq’s economy stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to that which previously existed. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability—in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks—but he intended to focus on ballistic missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.

DuelferReport

Couple that with Saddam's support and harboring of world-wide terrorists...



Yes...

[slakjaw]

So without being provocative, is the loss worth the gain so far?

NO!

**** the entire middle east

[creaturecat]

what is the gain- for the USA?

[dd74]

Originally posted by creaturecat
what is the gain- for the USA?

Well, it has been said more or less a terror-free environment. Thing is, "democracy" will not be enough, and I suspect whatever euphoria there is will last a very short while without some sizeable economic gain in Iraq.

It's fine if the Iraqis want our way of government. But it's more difficult to obtain our form of economics that our form of government provides.

[Tim Hancock]

If you fuch with the bull, you get the horn. (at least until a lefty gets back into the Whitehouse)

[slakjaw]

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
If you fuch with the bull, you get the horn. (at least until a lefty gets back into the Whitehouse)

What is this supposed to mean? Please explain yourself.

[jyl]

To date, the loss from invading Iraq is definitely greater than the gain from invading Iraq. I.e., the war to date has been a net loss. Unless you are deluded.

In my opinion, this war is never going to produce a net gain. The task now is to minimize the net loss.

I think pulling out of Iraq now will result in chaos and civil war as the country is torn apart into Syrian and Iranian client regions, anarchic areas ruled by Islamic terrorists, and a Kurdish region.

Thus to minimize the net loss, I believe we have to not only stay in Iraq, but increase our forces and expenditure, to get the country to some form of stability. I don't expect the resulting Iraq to be secular or pro-Western or all that democratic, but as long as it can more or less hold together, that would represent the "smallest net loss" that one can really hope for, out of this whole mess.

[Tim Hancock]

Pussyfooting around with Saddam for ten years and letting AQ exist without worries of attack from the US just emboldens the enemies of the free world. If they know they will be hit hard instead of being negotiated with, they will eventually see the light or be eliminated. Thankfully, at least for the time being, we have a tough leader in GWB.

[Neilk]

Originally posted by dd74
The Iraqi draft constitution did pass leading the way to democracy...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/25/iraq.main/index.html

So without being provocative, is the loss worth the gain so far?

So are Iraqis exploding with democracy? See SNL skit at the following link.

[jyl]

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
Pussyfooting around with Saddam for ten years and letting AQ exist without worries of attack from the US just emboldens the enemies of the free world. If they know they will be hit hard instead of being negotiated with, they will eventually see the light or be eliminated. Thankfully, at least for the time being, we have a tough leader in GWB.

Are the Iranians or North Koreans more, or less, afraid of being invaded and deposed by the US now? As they see us bogged down in Iraq, our ground forces stretched thin, the Army pulling troops back from South Korea and Europe, the Pentagon musing aloud about abandoning the goal of a "two war" capability, the US government struggling to pay the $100BN/yr war bills, our country alienated from much of the U.N., our erstwhile allies pulling their troops from the Iraq "coalition" . . . If I were them, I would judge the military threat to be much lower today than it was 3 years ago.

Speak softly and carry a big stick - but if the big stick gets stuck hard in the first target, the other targets have less to worry about.

[Jamie79SC]

Pussyfooting around with Saddam for ten years and letting AQ exist without worries of attack from the US just emboldens the enemies of the free world. If they know they will be hit hard instead of being negotiated with, they will eventually see the light or be eliminated.

WTF does invading Iraq have to do with "...letting AQ exist without worries of attack from the US...?"

AQ was fundamentally anti Saddam. Putting him out of power was almost the biggest favor we could have done for them; removing a despot that would in no way tolorate the threat implied by their presence in his country.

I'm not too worried that you don't understand that. I'm very worried that this was beyond the grasp of the administration, (or, if it was clear to them that they had the arrogance to proceed anyway)

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Jamie79SC
WTF does invading Iraq have to do with "...letting AQ exist without worries of attack from the US...?"

AQ and Saddam have a long history...They were there before the invasion and they are certainly there now...They are being killed in big numbers.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Jamie79SC
AQ was fundamentally anti Saddam. Putting him out of power was almost the biggest favor we could have done for them; removing a despot that would in no way tolorate the threat implied by their presence in his country.