Cop dies pursuing a Porsche and Bike racing

[Tobra]

Poor judgement on the cops part. I f someone passes you going 100 mph, you have to ask yourself, how far will they have traveled before you get your car started(pretty damn far) and how fast will you have to go to overtake them(Way faster than you should be going)

Going over 100 on a bike, if you can see anything in your mirrors, it is not conducive to long life to try and look at it

[masraum]

Originally posted by kaisen
Why have a Camaro or Mustang as a cop car? A clean top Crown Vic will break 130 - isn't that fast enough?

A Camaro or Mustang is a 'pursuit' car - period.

BTW, Camaro B4C 'service duty' pursuit cars handle 150mph just fine, without breaking a sweat. They came from the factory with Z rated Goodyear Eagles and have suspension, cooling, and brakes to handle it quite well. They did just fine in showroom stock racing too.

That cop should have called off the pursuit, even if he were in a Ferrari Enzo and had been through racing school.

E

We've had several police officers post here that most all police cruisers (impala, crown vic types) top out between 110 and 125. You have to remember the extra weight (handling/accel/braking) and light bars and bumpers (top speed).

Yep, the camaros will easily handle 150, but his apparently had issues. It could have been an existing problem, low pressure, bad tire, etc... or he might have hit something that caused the blow out.

[Jeff Higgins]

Here is an even more amazing scenario. Guy steals a car, cops see guy drive by in stolen car, cops chase guy in stolen car. Cops apprehend car thief on overpass, cuff him, and put him in back of cop car. Cop then stumbles, falls over guard rail on overpass to his death. Car thief gets nailed for manslaughter, because his actions led to our clumsy cop being on the overpass. True story; this happened in Everett, WA several years ago. The conviction stuck.

[techweenie]

The jury found it difficult to believe a guy on a motorcycle allegedly doing 150 *didn't* look behind him?

I know that if I were doing 150 on a motorcycle, my eyes would be glued on the road 1/4 mile in front of me.

I'm sure the cop thought he was doing the right thing, but cold as it sounds, I'm glad he hit trees instead of innocent people, because he was in way over his head.

[DavidI]

Wow! I am disgusted by some of the comments made about the cop being stupid. He was trying to do the right thing and paid for it with his life. His judgment may have been unsound, but that is in no way a means to berate him. In this case, the racers were directly responsible for the officer's death. For those of you who condemn this cop, consider this........When someone is shooting at you, a complete stranger (cop) will race to your aid putting his life in danger enroute, and then put himself in a gunbattle where he may be killed.

Being a cop is a very honorable profession. I just nominated two of my officers for the Medal of Valor during a shootout with a man high on PCP. This guy had shot his wife and was holding his 3 young children hostage at gunpoint. Two cops ran up to the apartment complex while bullets were whizzing by their heads and picked up the children. Each cop placed his own body in the line of fire protecting the kids. That is not something we are paid to do. That is not part of the job. That is raw courage in the face of extreme violence. We do this stuff on a daily basis for complete strangers.

Think about that the next time you say a cop is as dumb as a bag of rocks.

David

[competentone]

Originally posted by 84porsche
Yes the criminal is a violator but its common sense and good judgement that should win in this situation.

How about "common sense and good judgment" by the bike rider and Porsche driver?

From the story, it sounds like they were racing and blew past the cop. If one, or both wanted to exercise "common sense and good judgment" and wanted to avoid any risk of prosecution for more than the offenses they were clearly committing, they should have pulled-over immediately after they were aware that the officer observed them.

The officer would be alive and the drivers would probably just have speeding tickets.

If one had pulled over and stopped and waited for the officer and the other had continued to flee, and the officer pursued the fleeing suspect, the driver who stopped would have no risks for further charges if any accidents occurred in the chase.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by DavidI
Wow! I am disgusted by some of the comments made about the cop being stupid. He was trying to do the right thing and paid for it with his life. His judgment may have been unsound, but that is in no way a means to berate him. In this case, the racers were directly responsible for the officer's death.

How was someone unaware he was being pursued resposible?

Like I said I suppose I had been doing an 80 in a 70 and a cop decided to flip a u-turn and go get me in my shiney red Porsche. He miscalculates oncoming traffic and gets hit by a semi and killed. Am I responsible?

According to that analogy this Pelican should be ticketed for speeding and inciting an accident because he came up on a truck too fast and forced the driver to make a bad decision. He had to be speeding to catch the truck.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=254519

[claptrap]

David;
How would you evaluate those officers involved in the SFPD video scandal that is dominating our news these last few days?

Scott

[Bob's Flat-Six]

To bad you guy's don't give the officer the benefit of the doubt in stead of the biker with out even hearing the court case,

[claptrap]

I don't believe that people are, or should be, faulting the officer, he was doing his duty.

What is the issue is that people in general believe the court system to be fair in dispensing justice, in this particular case the system did not live up to these ideals.

Scott

[Bob's Flat-Six]

Originally posted by claptrap
I don't believe that people are, or should be, faulting the officer, he was doing his duty.

What is the issue is that people in general believe the court system to be fair in dispensing justice, in this particular case the system did not live up to these ideals.

Scott

Without hearing the case how would you know it failed ?

[island911]

Originally posted by kaisen
. . ..
A Camaro or Mustang is a 'pursuit' car - period. .. ..

E

So then, they don't even need radios.

on the larger topic; Clearly the "professional" got in over his head. . . .regardless of whether the Camaro was up to the task.

No doubt his radio was up to the task, but I imagine that the "professional" wanted to have some fun with the situation.

I know that if I were a cop I would look fwd to an opportunity to legally race/chase some capable targets.

Well, the whole thing is truely sad.

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
Like I said I suppose I had been doing an 80 in a 70 and a cop decided to flip a u-turn and go get me in my shiney red Porsche. He miscalculates oncoming traffic and gets hit by a semi and killed. Am I responsible?

According to the copper, yes, silly as it sounds. You were "directly responsible" for the cop's death. After all, if you weren't driving 76 in a 70mph zone, he wouldn't have turned around.

Seems to me, every time a police officer dies in the line of duty, one person or several persons must be convicted of manslaughter or murder. Someone is directly reponsible for the officer's death, right? Sounds like the courts have a lot of catching up to do.

[claptrap]

"Without hearing the case how would you know it failed?"

My opinion is that the verdict was unjust. The best we can do is to try to understand the facts/arguments of the case as they are reported, look at the result, and apply our best judgement as to the fairness and reasonableness of the verdict.

I am not faulting the officer for his actions. I think that if the officer had not responded to the commission of a crime, he would have been derelict. He had a clear duty to respond. This is one area where there is not enough information to form an opinion on the particulars of the accident, if that is what you are concerned about.

Scott

[Bob's Flat-Six]

Funny how most people in this nation support the efforts of our troops without question that are trying to protect our freedoms.
While a police officer over here doing basically the same thing gets a lack of support and ever ran through a wringer.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Bob's Flat-Six
Funny how most people in this nation support the efforts of our troops without question that are trying to protect our freedoms.
While a police officer over here doing basically the same thing gets a lack of support and ever ran through a wringer.

My best friend growing up was an officers son. I lived at his house and was exposed to law enforcement my entire life from a personal point of view. My mentor growing up was a Sherrif and I keep in touch with him to this day.

I 100% support the efforts of the police. In this town I work in, Port St. Lucie, the police presence is staggering. I can drive around North Carolina hunting for a home to buy and see maybe 2 cops in 5 days. I cannot drive to work in the morning without seeing 6 or more here.

They set up speed traps on a daily basis on roads with rediculasly low speed limits. One road I travel has a 35 MPH speed limit and its a 4 lane boulevard. One of the side road that feeds it is a 2 lane residential road and the speed limit is 40 on it. The 35MPH road is a speed trap.

The police will turn up on this road 20+ cars strong and use laser guns to nab speeders.

On any other day a patrol car will blow by you at 55 mph on this same road routinely.

A co-worker in my office called this same police force to report a drug dealer walking around his parking lot in his condo complex soliciting drugs to strangers. It took the police 1 hour and 20 minuts to show up. Guess who was long gone?

There are bigger problems in this town than speeders but drug dealers do not generate revenue, speeders do so guess what we concentrate on here?


As far as that court case goes. Police cars have radios. It is a shame someone lost their life doing their job, I feel sorry for his family. But vengence on the guy on the bike will not change anything. He was guilty of speeding and should have had his license suspended and fined heavily. Manslaughter seems over the top to me.

[island911]

Originally posted by Bob's Flat-Six
Funny how most people in this nation support the efforts of our troops without question that are trying to protect our freedoms.
While a police officer over here doing basically the same thing gets a lack of support and ever ran through a wringer.

hmmm... where do meter-maids fit into this picture? Are metermaids just like our troops?

From what I've seen, they have tougher jobs than many of the traffic cops out there.

As Jim points out; many cops avoid any type of tough enforcement. They just spend their day looking for weak targets. . . to "enforce the law" upon.


yep. . .. we ought to give meter-maids guns. They need .. . deserve! the same respect as our troops.

[DavidI]

Originally posted by claptrap
David;
How would you evaluate those officers involved in the SFPD video scandal that is dominating our news these last few days?

Scott

I have only briefly heard about the story, but I think the cops making the video were foolish. They may have intended for the video to be seen by of the officers involved who were friends, but then put it on the internet. Once viewed by outsiders, the perceptions will vary and may be taken out of context.

It takes years for a bond of trust to be established between a community and the police, but only a few seconds to shatter it.

David

[DavidI]

Originally posted by island911
So then, they don't even need radios.

on the larger topic; Clearly the "professional" got in over his head. . . .regardless of whether the Camaro was up to the task.

No doubt his radio was up to the task, but I imagine that the "professional" wanted to have some fun with the situation.

I know that if I were a cop I would look fwd to an opportunity to legally race/chase some capable targets.

Well, the whole thing is truely sad.

Island, I have a great deal of respect for your opinion. I agree that nothing good will ever come of anyone driving that speed on a public road. There are too many variables that could, and do, go wrong. I bet that if you were a seasoned cop, you would not look forward to that opportunity because you would have already seen too much tragedy. The radio and helicopter may have been the best choice of tools in dealing with this situation.

David

[island911]

Originally posted by DavidI
.. . I bet that if you were a seasoned cop, you would not look forward to that opportunity because you would have already seen too much tragedy. .. .

Actually, you're right. (truely)

In that situation, as a cop, I would be worried that I would scare the crap out of those being chased .. . causing THEM to wreck. (that would suck)

I guess that I would be one of those "derelict of duty" cops, because I would have just used the radio. esp...even if I had a CAMERO.