What am I? Chopped liver? ;)

Sorry hammer, didn't mean to over look ya!! :p

I attend a church that passes a bag, but every time, it is announced to not feel obligated to give. It is simply a way that regular attenders show appreciation for what God has done for them.

That's my kind of church.

I can't count how many different catholic churches I have attended, and never once have I felt obligated to give. Of course charity is often a topic of homilies, but not to any one specific source. Something else that has not yet been brought up, many of the churches I have attended put a larger emphasis on giving of your time than your money. We do have the donation envelopes sent to us, but they are for those that wish to track their donations for tax purposes. We always give cash, and give what we can afford. The only case within the Catholic church that I have heard of an official guideline is if you have a child in school. Our local diocese asks that families with children in Catholic school give 10% of their income to cover the school costs. They ASK this! If you have a rough year, they don't kick out your child. Extra costs are covered from the rest of the congregation. For any of you that have kids in a private school, how much do you pay?

The church that my aunt and uncle (now divorced) used to attend though, that was the epitome of what you guys have been bashing. Their philosophy was, "give and you shall get", stating that the more you gave to the church, the more you would receive from God. Not blessings of good health or happiness though, physical stuff. They actually preached this crap! So if you give $50k, God will give you a Ferrari. They seriously believed it. When he was younger, my uncle GAVE away a '65 Mustang Convertible to a church member. He was going to Nashville to be a christian country music star, because God had called him to.:rolleyes: Shortly after receiving the car, he sold it, no shock there. That entire church was such a fraud, and it was no surprise when I heard that their pastor purchased a Boxster. They also tracked the contributions, and ostracized those that didn't pay enough. What a joke!

Let's not confuse Christian bashing with telling the truth about tithing--though some will see this as a great opportunity.

One can not ignore when a relative is being prayed upon but to bring it out and discuss it.

You may have to wade through some insults and opinions on this thread to get some truths. That aside, it was an old covennant mandate for Israel. BTW, there was a second and third tithe at certain times. How come that is not mandated along with the first tithe. And the levites, people of the cloth, were not allowed to own land. Do some of these tithe preachers own land and cars...and jets? How about luxury condos?

The love of money is the root of all evil.

Indigo I would be happy to discuss the pros and cons of tithing (which I think is what the thread was originally supposed to be about). Unfortunately several people saw an opportunity and decided to release their opinions of Christians in general.

I still would like to know if you are against tithing (which is essentially giving to the church), how would you say the church is supposed to survive and do its work??

Dantilla wrote:

Yeah, what he said!....That's my kinda church.

I am not against tithing at all or people giving 40% of their income, or 1% for that matter, it is their bussiness. I am against those that pick a mandate out of the old testament to brow beat the unlearned into tithing. What about the other old testament mandates that were given alongside tithing?

IMO, thithing is being used to prop up many reproachful minitries that lead to some of the bashing you see today.

Ok, and I would agree with you that churches that try and force their members to tithe are wrong.

You seem to think that accounts for most churches though, am I wrong?

Something else about my church-

The pastor is very intentional about staying away from the offering. He does not want to know who gives, or how much. He never wants to treat someone differently, either better or worse, because of what they give or don't give the church. And having no information is the best way to accomplish that.

No, there are many good churches around, but many teach compulsionary tithing. Especially those of a certain persuation that I am not going to name here (not the Latter Day Saints mentioned earlier) .

The churches I attend, and how I read the Bible, is that God does command us to give back to the church. I don't, however, think that tithing or any other works will get you into heaven or gain you favor with God in any way. Tithing is an individual's way of giving back to God some of what God has provided to you.

I am sure there are some churches out there that would disagree with me, but I can only speak for myself and my church.

If everyone does not like the American system, the how about this!? I lived in Germany for over 10 years and when first moving there I was briefed by Americans who lived there to always say that I was not religious when filling out any govt paperwork. BTW, I am a strong Christian and very religious, but very few would ever suspect it, I just keep my personal belief's personal.

In Germany if you say that you are religious, the govt takes 2-3% (forget which) out of your paycheck every two weeks. They then donate it to the church they feel needs it, not the one you attend. You have no choice in where it goes and its not optional. Once you say you are religious it almost takes an act of Congress to get it changed.

Also, if you are on the "not religious" list the Church's refuse to work with you but will allow you to attend services. If you want to get married its possible but only in the local city hall. I married my wife there twice, once in the city hall and once in the church. It took six months of her pleading with the Minister and paying him extra donations to get him to allow us to wed in the church because I had not been paying into the system. The fact that I did not go to their church was not a factor, it was money based.

Lucky for me that I feel that you can be religious without going to a church. As I do not go to Church on a regular basis, I tithe by donating funds to causes I feel deserve it as well as volunteering my time to various agencies that help the poor and needy. Money I can make, the time that I volunteer is much more precious to me and hopefully to those in need.

Also, look at the Mormons. I am told that you have to have a "book" that you carry that shows that you are paying your 10% and are current in your payments. If your book is not current you are not allowed to attend services. If you are out of work they will help you but you really have to prove your financial status to get help. What a load of crap IMHO but they are more money and cult based than most other religions.

Joe A

Coupon book is standard - they want to make sure you get your donation. If it guilts you, that's a benefit. Some churchs (mine included now) have an EFT. That's tacky. I bet it's harder to quit than the gym!

I like that ou requoted my quote, so I'm quoting it again. :P

I usd to have a Jewish boss. She told me on the high holy days, non-regular atendees at her synogogue would have to pay for tickets to service. Wow!

When I went to Christmas Mass this year. All of the Christmas and Easter Catholics were there. It was a zoo, but nobody paid to be there.

Supe has it right. All the Catholic churchs I have been to are very lax about appearance (we're slobs on Sunday I guess) and soliciting for the offeratory. If you put in for the offeratory it either goes to the church (for regular day to day business purposes) or a second collection (missions, building fund, etc) but you know what you're paying for.

In my early days in insurance, I worked with several churches. they would set appointments for me with members of their parish and we would all meet together to sell them a life insurance policy that the member would pay the premium on and the church would be the owner/beneficiary of. the church leaders at these appointments were closing harder than me to sell these policies. they considered the premium part of their tithe. Over the years I've delivered many death benifit checks to these churches. They have been able to use the lump sums to create income producing endowments. (which I helped them invest, more $$$ for me!!)

being a bit of a agnostic, I sometimes felt bad that this marketing idea paid off so well, but now that it has come full circle and has made a really big difference in these churches I'm glad I did it.

anyway...moral of the story is, there are lots of ways to tithe and here's another idea.

Kind of hard to do when Federal, Social Security, Medicare, State, County, and City taxes total more than 50% of my income.