Anti-state Masterpiece...

fastpat · 03-20-2006, 07:23 AM

The new movie, V for Vendetta reviewed:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer132.html

johncj8989 · 03-20-2006, 07:39 AM

I've seen the movie twice already and I absolutely loved it. People have tagged it as being pro-terrorist but it is not... it's pro-freedom.

Neilk · 03-20-2006, 08:06 AM

Great movie...

Sure it might be pro-terrorist, in the same vein as the colonialist's Boston Tea Party.

FrayAdjacent911 · 03-20-2006, 11:59 AM

I've read some discussions about it... Kinda iffy on whether I want to see it.

How is the government portrayed in the movie? Fascist? Socialist?

I just don't want to support a Bush bashing franchise, even if it is very very thickly veiled.

BlueSkyJaunte · 03-20-2006, 12:47 PM

Alan Moore has already come out against this film, so I won't be going to see it.

gaijindabe · 01:12 PM

The book is based on Thatcher era politics. They say the story was toned down and the special effects turned up to make it watchable.

Jared at Pelican Parts · 03-20-2006, 01:11 PM

After reading the graphic novel, I dont think any movie adaption can come close.. They royally screwed up Leauge Of Extraordinary Gentelmen. I fear how this will compare...

As for Alan Moore objecting, I cant see him ever liking much of anything..

gaijindabe · 03-20-2006, 01:15 PM

Go see Dave Chapelle's House Party. I never did see his show on cable and did not know what all the fuss was about.

The movie is outrageous. Part concert movie, part behind the scenes, part travelogue. Lots over everyday folks mixed in.

The house itself is real, I have been by there a few times..

Seahawk · 03-20-2006, 01:25 PM

In a political context, it is as childish to posit the violence engaged in by one group as 'peacekeeping" and the opposing group as "terrorism," as it is to regard one side as "good" and the other as "evil." It is the interdependent violence inherent in all political systems that is made evident in this film.

In a, "political context"? From the website, "The Mises Institute, with offices in Auburn, Alabama, seeks a radical shift in the intellectual climate as the foundation for a renewal of the free and prosperous commonwealth"...isn't a commonwealth a political structure?

I thought he said all political systems are violent? How is HIS commonwealth going to be non-violent?

And the moral revelance is simply putrid. He needs to travel more.

There is one poignant scene in this movie in which thousands of unarmed, peaceful individuals confront the well-armed military forces of the state.

China? Nixon? LBJ? Boat People? Glasnost?

I am all for reforming the obscene political mess created by both political parties, the abject apathy of the American politic and the concomitant impacts on the republic, btw.

fastpat · 03-20-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seahawk
In a political context, it is as childish to posit the violence engaged in by one group as 'peacekeeping" and the opposing group as "terrorism," as it is to regard one side as "good" and the other as "evil." It is the interdependent violence inherent in all political systems that is made evident in this film.

In a, "political context"? From the website, "The Mises Institute, with offices in Auburn, Alabama, seeks a radical shift in the intellectual climate as the foundation for a renewal of the free and prosperous commonwealth"...isn't a commonwealth a political structure?

No, not to my knowledge. That a couple of states use it in their official titles isn't significant as to the basic definition.

Quote:

I thought he said all political systems are violent? How is HIS commonwealth going to be non-violent?

And the moral revelance is simply putrid. He needs to travel more.

There is one poignant scene in this movie in which thousands of unarmed, peaceful individuals confront the well-armed military forces of the state.

China? Nixon? LBJ? Boat People? Glasnost?

I am all for reforming the obscene political mess created by both political parties, the abject apathy of the American politic and the concomitant impacts on the republic, btw.

You do realize that all of your referenced persons and events are examples of governments and government officers that were essentially mass murderers, right?

Seahawk · 03-20-2006, 01:42 PM

I didn't know the Boat People were mass murderers...so what "system" is going to be put in place, Pat? It is significant, whether you think so or not.

BlueSkyJaunte · 03-20-2006, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jared Fenton
After reading the graphic novel, I dont think any movie adaption can come close.. They royally screwed up Leauge Of Extraordinary Gentelmen. I fear how this will compare...

True. LXG (the movie) sucked bigtime. REAL bigtime. The books, on the other hand, were pretty damn cool.

Quote:

As for Alan Moore objecting, I cant see him ever liking much of anything..

Maybe, maybe not. Nobody's ever tried to get him 100% involved in the project(s) to film his ideas, AFAIK. I think Rodriguez did it right by making Miller co-director for Sin City. Same with del Toro and Mignola for Hellboy. This should be the model for comic-to-screen translations, not the exception....

fastpat · 03-20-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seahawk
I didn't know the Boat People were mass murderers...

They were produced by people who were and are mass murderers. I apologize if the logic was obscure.

Quote:

so what "system" is going to be put in place, Pat? It is significant, whether you think so or not.

No system is to be put in place. A system that involves people freely making interactions and agreements with others will evolve as necessary.

Use the World Wide Web as the template if you must.

fastpat · 03-20-2006, 02:02 PM

Additional commentary:

Quote:

Wikipedia on V
Posted by Anthony Gregory at 04:32 PM

In Wikipedia's entry for the film V for Vendetta, responses to the movie are discussed, including a mention of LRC!

. . . One of the most negative reviews came from conservative talk-show host Michael Medved who called the movie "V for vile, vicious, vacuous, venal, verminous and vomitaceous." Medved also said that the movie recites leftwing propaganda, audiences will lose interest about halfway through the film, and that it has a confusing ending. "[16]

However, many on the libertarian and conservative right, especially at Lewrockwell.com see the film as a positive depiction in favor of a free society with limited government and free enterprise, citing the state's terrorism as being of greater evil and rationalized by its political machinery, while V's acts are seen as 'terroristic' because they are done by a single individual.

Natalie Portman's opinion is interesting, as is the quote of Alan Moore: http://blog.lewrockwell.com/.

Seahawk · 03-20-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
[B]They were produced by people who were and are mass murderers. I apologize if the logic was obscure.

No system is to be put in place. A system that involves people freely making interactions and agreements with others will evolve as necessary.

Use the World Wide Web as the template if you must.

Your reply was not obscure...I was to fast to the keyboard. Your logic was clear.

Concerning people and free interaction, your cautionary tale about mass murderers and their impact is telling: do we simply suspend human nature and assume they will convert?

"Evolving as necessary...the WWW as a template" means no one is going to steal my credit card number, right?

epbrown · 03-20-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
Maybe, maybe not. Nobody's ever tried to get him 100% involved in the project(s) to film his ideas, AFAIK. I think Rodriguez did it right by making Miller co-director for Sin City. Same with del Toro and Mignola for Hellboy. This should be the model for comic-to-screen translations, not the exception....

Nah, I think Moore is one of those authors who simply won't accept the realities of changing mediums for a story - he'd rather grouse about it. Probably ticked they insist on removing all of the anal rapes he puts his characters through.

As far as disavowing any connection, I've read that he got burned when something of his was adapted previously as "Alan Moore's ." Since then, he takes his check and runs for the hills without looking back.

fastpat · 03-20-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seahawk
Your reply was not obscure...I was to fast to the keyboard. Your logic was clear.

Concerning people and free interaction, your cautionary tale about mass murderers and their impact is telling: do we simply suspend human nature and assume they will convert?

Government allows human nature to operate without limits.

Quote:

"Evolving as necessary...the WWW as a template" means no one is going to steal my credit card number, right?

There is no perfect world, and no free lunch. You should be able to follow my logic in my WWW example as well.