Yeah, quit yer *****in' about the lootin', smash a window and grab yourself a TV.

the reason to complain about exxon v. starbucks profits is that everyone relys on gas and it is a huge factor in our economy. starbucks isnt.

There is no federal statute against price gouging - it's called "whatever the market will bear" - a core tenet of the free market/capitalist system. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Very true, congratulations on your astute observation. That doesn't me one can't rant on about it endlessly.

This BS has great therapeutic value for many folks.

Oh, so the fact that you need something vs. want it means market economics shouldn't apply or that you're entitled to a lower price?

Nobody "needs" gas. Nobody "needs" a car. I think you're confusing "need" with "want" or perhaps "expected standard of living".

"Needs" include water, food, air, shelter and probably clothing.

"Wants" include pretty much everything else.



Sorry to trivialize everyone's plight out there, but there ARE alternatives. Instead of complaining, perhaps some people could adopt a "in difficulty lies opportunity" mentality and figure out ways to telecommute, work from home, investigate mass-transit or carpooling, cut down on the amount of needless running around, etc.

It's called "lifestyle simplification" - a foreign concept to a lot of people. My point is there always ARE alternatives - most people are just too blinded by convention or expectation to ever see them.

The voters deepest, inner-most thoughts:

"is this big land yacht in my driveway the best thing I could have purchased in the past 5 years? I mean we had 9/11 - and you just knew somwthing was going to happen after that.. Then we kicked Saddam out of power.. Then the rise of that nutcase in Iran... That little turd of a commie dictator comes to power in Venezuela... Ethnic strife in Nigeria has been cooking for a while.. The Indian, Chinese and U.S. economies are growing at a record pace.. The boom in silly mega-trucks, SUVs and McMansions... Crazy patchwork EPA regulations and not enough refining capacity to meet them... Moving into a 30-cycle of big hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico where much domestic oil output is located..."

Or maybe this:

"It is Bush's fault!"

This is why everyone feels the pain. It is amplified by ridiculous runups based solely on the fears of something happening because of Iran or because there might be a hurricane or .... If you look at the price/bbl huge fluctuations are present which are not borne out by supply/demand. Further the companies have the temerity to raise the price at the pump the day the bbl price goes up, but don't decrease their prices for 2wks after the bbl price decreases because it "takes that long to process the barrel into distillate".

As to the claim that you don't need a car - this is plainly ridiculous unless you are in IT in San Francisco or New York. Essentially all US cities are unlivable without more rapid/distance capable transportation than a bicycle. Extreme case: Mrs X, I'd love to come in to the hospital and treat you husband's life-threatening heart attack, but I have to ride my bike 30 miles from the other hospital in town!

The voters should blame themselves and no one else.
They created the unbalanced market.
They over-consumed because it was cheap and convenient. They voted for people who would sponsor leglislation to limit production and made it harder and more expensive to produce gasoline.
It is no one else's job to save us from ourselves, we have to try and take personal responsibilty even though that is no longer a concept very many people can grasp.

Sammy, +1000000000.

And Thom, comparing legal investing to looting is about the most asinine thing I have read on this board.
You don't like the rules of the game so you decide not to play, that's your business.
Making a statement that indicates people playing by the rules are looters just re-inforces the fact that you are a perpetual uniformed victim and that's how you like it and you don't want that to change.

It gives you an excuse so you can say "it's not my fault I failed, I'm just a victim of the system".
That just means you really haven't taken the time to fully understand the system. Instead, you found it easier to blame those who have spent the time and effort to learn.
They are suceeding and you are not, so they are bad and need to be punished by taking away what they earned and give it to those who haven't earned it.
Of course that is the premise the entire democratic party is based on so it comes as no surprise.

Not exactly true although your observations are accurate. I would suggest that a great deal of this has to do with money that is available to invest and the presence of huge funds that are all looking to outperform whatever. Futures markets (which drive the oil market) are the ultimate form of the stock market, which itself is based on hysteria and the herd mentality more than fundamentals. Add in the day traders trying to surf a stock runup, and you get these kind of effects.

The same sort of thing happened in the housing market when the investment money temporarily left the stock market - ridiculous runups of 20%+/yr. Unfortunately, people have to live someplace, they just have to mortgage more of their future.http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/sad2.gif

Peter, I agree for the most part.
One thing is, the fuel commodity market has become unstable and subject to speculatory swings recently. It wasn't always that way.
there was a time when we had enough excess oil production and enough excess refining capacity that there was little incentive for speculative investing and even if there was, it wouldn't have made that much difference.
Nowadays the supply doesn't meet demands without importing fuel so the market is basically unstable and it's easy for a few to influence swings even if they are temporary.
The past 2 months were a perfect example. The prices started to climb so lots of speculators started buuying futures. As they did the prices went up further. It snowballed as everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
If there was 12 to 15% excess refining capacity as there was 20 years ago, all that speculation wouldn't have happened and the price would have only swung a few cents at the most.

Exxon made a profit? Shame on them!! They should be teetering on bankrupcty like GM and Delphi. Exxon obviously need new management ..... :rolleyes:

I'm just happy the Bush Admin was able to push through huge tax breaks for the oil industry before the record profits started flowing in.

Great info for the rhetoric lovers


and to add + to my quoting a gasoline buyer's bubble gum poll on another thread that 70% of them said high gas prices is affecting family income.

my bro just returned from the Lake Havasu area. It's on the Calif/Ariz border. Real nice with no illegals and no one who even looks like an illegal. He's a successfully poker player and businessman thou not exactly always the intellectual. . He said the necessary toys for living there included a spear gun and a fast boat. He was tooling around in a 27' Fountain for a few days. Population is 50/100k depending on season. The crowd is more old Aspen inclined instead of being loaded with mom & pop stuff with strollers. No legal topless so the girls hang around in pasties. Plenty of 30's, 40's, 50's females hanging so a single will have a good selection. [Did I mention my bro is single]. You need about $350k for decent digs in a strong local housing market.

Meanwhile there is that % that just isn't concerned with fuel prices..

You'll be happy to know that the oil industry and the consumers both pay taxes on oil products. They [the industry] also employ thousands of people, provide health care and jump through a million environmentalist hoops and regulations. The industry does all the work and then, to insult injury, make a fraction of the profit. Like the mob, the government demands a cut for protection, an offer that cannot be refused.

I usually don't chime in on these arguments, but what concerns me isn't necessarily the higher price of gas, it is the higher cost of living that is associated with it. Everything within our 'free' market will rise on the back of increased energy costs. Clothes, groceries, utilities, heat.... things that are NEEDED not WANTED. Fuel prices have risen 40% in the past calendar year, freight costs have increased as fuel surcharges of 20-22% are added to the invoices to account for the higher price of diesel. As market prices are driven higher to pass along these increases who pays? All of us, some will fare better than others. But what happens to those that are scraping to get by now, those that are gainfully employed by our shrinking manufacturing sector, those that will nver see an 8-10% cost of living increase to meet the rising costs that they are faced with? The overall picture frightens me.

What happens?...They get slapped with fines for parking on the street. They fall into the parking shakedown. They live in liberal areas that make big bucks on the parking violations racket. They get raped by the government, the government that says they are "for the people" out of the other side of their mouth, while beating you senseless with taxation and fines.

[/Los Angeles parking nazi rant]

Business owners can't be too happy to see a decent chunk of their customers disposable incomes being sucked in by the oil industry.