Landis: PATHETIC French smear campaign

[HardDrive]

This does not add up. Testosterone is not speed. You don't take it boost your performance one day. Its a training tool for improving muslce mass and endurance. Landis has been test 6 times since 2002. Always clean. Now, magically, he comes up with a questionable sample 17 stages into the tour?

So what exactly did the testing show? Oh wait, thats right, the French cycling twats won't say, they just declare he was doping and let the guy get hung in the court of public opinion. The f*cking press, being the pathetic whores they are, are jumping all overthemselves to write articles about Landis is 'just another example of athletes cheating'. Guilty and sentenced before the guy ever gets a fair trial.

So, you want to know how I really feel........?

I think the French are pathetic, pompus f*ckbags, who are so spineless that they will do ANYTHING to diminish the achievments of American cyclists. Have kick the snot out of the europeans through SUPERIOR TRAINING for the past 8 years, this is their weak assed attempt to draw an asterisk next our boys stunning achievments.

Fuch France.

[Rodeo]

You're not gonna start that whole "freedom fries" thing again, are you?

[Deschodt]

Funny, I seem to recall they banned 2 or 3 big names for doping before the tour... But just because Landis is American, you assume that it's a smear campaign from France? Who, the government? the federation? Do you wear a tin foil hat at night ?

I'd wait till the control tests are "in" before saying for sure, but a guy that completely "crashed" one day and miraculously staged a comeback the next and then tests with a ratio of testosterone (vs another kind, forgot what) that puts it in doping range looks mighty suspicious to me !

But let's wait for the final results, shall we?

And if he is guilty, he is guilty of screwing up the sport as well... I really don't think his nationality has ANYTHING to do with anything but go ahead, you enjoy that excuse as long as you want... Jan Ulrich wasn't american, was he ?

[bivenator]

gotta agree with harddrive on this one. from what i have read it seems that the court of public opinion is being used to smear the victory. jan ulrich was guilty of doping

[turbo6bar]

If dude is hyped up on spinach, the chances of having that complete "crash" are minimized, are they not? For all we know, Landis' hip might have gotten a little gimpy that day.

It's all speculation now.

Once again, I propose bombing France. We need the practice, anyway.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by bivenator
gotta agree with harddrive on this one. from what i have read it seems that the court of public opinion is being used to smear the victory. jan ulrich was guilty of doping

i was under the impressiong that there was a stink with 200 athletes names,
but Ulrich was not tested, nor did anyone bust im doing anything...

so if you call this a french conspiracy against Landis / USA
then what about Ulrich? this could have been his tour but he was ousted without proof, he was asked to proove his innocence by his own team, nobody prooved his guilt, not in a lab, nor in court

if Landis complains, Ulrich can complain twie as hard...

[Deschodt]

Yup, that's my point... I don't know who cheated or not, nobody knows yet.. the press got on top of it, of course !

But I am amused by the original poster's assumption that just because the guy is American means he can do no wrong, and just because the tour happens in France, the French are singling out american riders...
Landis was not exaclty a household name compared to the people banned before the race !!

[nostatic]

the French just hate everyone. Including the French.

And don't forget that self-loathing is an art...

[livi]

Ah, nice to see you again Stijn!

And with yet another novelty avatar. This time I do recognize its origin.

On the topic - whats to debate before the confirming results are finished ?

Everyone knows that sport has always been 'dirty'. Its a race between the teams chemists and the chemist of the Federation.

[einreb]

Originally posted by HardDrive
[B]I think the French are pathetic, pompus f*ckbags, who are so spineless that they will do ANYTHING to diminish the achievments of American cyclists. Have kick the snot out of the europeans through SUPERIOR TRAINING for the past 8 years, this is their weak assed attempt to draw an asterisk next our boys stunning achievments.

I call troll, but...

The UCI (the agency that governs the testing) is Swiss.

If you think they hate Americans, look how they treat Ukrainians. They couldnt get dirt on Vinokourov so they accused enough of his teamates so his entire team got disqualified for the TDF. Then imediately after the race. Cleared the five teamates.

The only doping "agency" dumber than the UCI is MLB.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by nostatic
the French just hate everyone. Including the French.

And don't forget that self-loathing is an art...

That's certainly the view you get if you watch Faux, or the Cartoon Network (DARN that Pepe Le Pew!).

The French love me. If they criticize my pronunciation from time to time, I don't take it personally. They criticize each other's pronunciation, as well.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by techweenie
That's certainly the view you get if you watch Faux, or the Cartoon Network (DARN that Pepe Le Pew!).

The French love me. If they criticize my pronunciation from time to time, I don't take it personally. They criticize each other's pronunciation, as well.

Frenchies are allright once you figure them out and once you cover the language barrier , by speaking french yourself, even poorly... they aren't that difficult to deal with either...

i deal with them in my job , cause i'm the only french speaker in my team, and the reason for them not speaking english IMHO is not based on not willing, but mostly shyness, insecurity about their pronounciation of english and lack of practice(dubbing films in french for instance is not helping them )...almost all of them are fluent writing and reading it... and i'm sure they would be good speakers if only they got over the initial discomfort and insecurity... probably a lot better then most foreigners who try french actually..., the frenchies in our office, are quite good at english, the ones that visit too, and the girls make it sound very hot...(try calling any company in france, ze girls at ze reception... it's like they select em for the ability to sound hot on the phone, no kidding )

if anything, France is high up on my list for a place i might move once i got my things in Holland wrapped up... it would be a definate upgrade in quality of cuisine and style... all i need is the right vacancy in an outfit outside Paris, which i simply want to avoid due to it's unfriendly nature towards driving cars and owning cars ( traffic jams and lack of affordable parking )...

[techweenie]

Originally posted by svandamme
if anything, France is high up on my list for a place i might move once i got my things in Holland wrapped up... it would be a definate upgrade in quality of cuisine and style... all i need is the right vacancy in an outfit outside Paris, which i simply want to avoid due to it's unfriendly nature towards driving cars and owning cars ( traffic jams and lack of affordable parking )...

I agree. I'd choose somewhere between Aix en Provence and the Cote d'Azure. Just a GTV ride from Paris.

[cegerer]

>>>The basis of the urine test is the T/E ratio, a balance between testosterone and epitestosterone in the body. Most adults have a range between 1:1 to 2:1, but the UCI has set the threshold at 4:1 to allow for riders with naturally occurring his testosterone levels.

The T/E ratio can vary widely within individuals, and in some cases the T/E ratio may be above the 4:1 ratio without doping while others can stay below the threshold despite cheating. The ratio tends to be constant over time, but wild swings may indicate doping. Other factors can cause swings in the ratio, such as dehydration, fatigue and even alcohol.

Anything above that threshold sends a red flag for doping controls. Landis would not reveal what his T/E ratio was in the samples taken after stage 17 into Morzine, when he went on an all-day solo attack to crawl his way back into overall contention.

The T/E ratio is not a sure-fire way to measure testosterone in the body, but it's the only detection method currently used under anti-doping controls.

Other riders have been caught up in the T/E ratio web and some have been cleared after proving with endocrine testing they have naturally high occurring testosterone levels. <<<<

So maybe it WAS the beer. After his nightmare stage he told everyone he was going to get drunk that night.

[cegerer]

"some have been cleared after proving with endocrine testing they have naturally high occurring testosterone levels"

Or maybe he's just too much of a man for the Frenchies???

[bivenator]

Then, after more leaks Thursday, Spanish authorities released details from the probe to Tour organizers and other cycling bodies, showing which riders were implicated in the investigation. It was on the basis of that official information that Tour teams decided to act.

T-Mobile received information implicating Ullrich, Sevilla and Pevenage from Tour organizers, including documents from the Spanish government, team spokesman Luuc Eisenga said.

"The only thing I can tell you is that the information is clear enough and didn't leave any doubt," he said

It would seem that Ulrich was caught and did not protest the findings. from what I've read on the matter Landis findings can be a false positive for doping. i apologise for the Americans victory. i feel bad for the french. couple an American victory in the TDF and the the meltdown of their national hero in the world cup because somebody called him a name. it is a difficult time for the french. i feel your pain, no really i mean that

[legion]

Doesn't the FIA change the rules every time a non-French team wins? Who controls the governing body for cycling?

[fintstone]

Originally posted by techweenie
.....The French love me...

Why am I not surprised? Do you swap anti-American bumper sticker phrases...or just enjoy a general overall shared appreciation of terrorists?

[dd74]

T-Mobile - after the tour of Ca, I saw Ulrich and another rider in T-Mobile gear riding down Hollywood Blvd., right around the Kodak Theater. Those boys look a helluva a lot bigger in person than on TV.

France - sure, France's cycling community would like to save some face. LeMond took care of Frenchman Bernard Hinault on this very day in 1987, then took care of another Frenchman, Laurent Fignon with the smallest margin of victory in the race's history - 8 seconds. Then comes Lance - for seven years straight. Now Landis.

Personally, I think all sides are guilty. I watched Landis' Stage 17 victory in the bar of the Hyatt in downtown San Diego during the San Diego Comic Book Convention - and even the fatest most disgusting rendition of any self-absorbed comic book geeks turned their attention to the TV when Landis destroyed the field, particularly when it was announced he bonked on the last climb of Stage 16. "Dope" wasn't said, but it was on everyone's raised brow.

On NPR's "Left, Right and Center" today, one of the commentators said, "Well, if they want to lose their testicles, let them." (sic)

In the end, yes, it's major league baseball on wheels, but that shouldn't surprise anyone, really. I don't think any normal human could race this race, for three weeks straight and under such stringent conditions and rules, and at the speeds they're going, w/o some enhancement.
And is the testing all that credible?

France as a country - where do you think Lance lived when training in Europe? The French, at large, aren't the problem, for *****'s sake! The French, at large, probably don't even care one way or the other...

[svandamme]

Originally posted by fintstone
Why am I not surprised? Do you swap anti-American bumper sticker phrases...or just enjoy a general overall shared appreciation of terrorists?

why would it be anti american , to say anyone likes or loves you?
really fint, you oughta think about what you just said
cause in that sentence, you basically expressed a silent wish to be hated by everyone... and shown a tendency towards paranoia...

it's not about national security
it's not about terrorists
it's not politics

it's cycling man , it's a stupid sport , of tools on bicycles
guys that get payed very little , to turn off their mind
and stomp on the pedals, in hope that one day they will be picked up in a big , high profile team, with reasonable pay(relative compared to the time and effort invested) where they can either be the helper of someone like Armstrong, or god forbid the team boss will make them the teams hope for victory, and order the others in the team to support them instead....

how many of those bony , characters have you seen in advertisement lately?? not much ad contracts go their way you know... it's not the right sport for that.. most big advertisement deals go to F1 racers, soccer players even Golfers
Cyclists, not so much , the advertisement is done on a team basis
if you wanna advertise in cycling , you get a trainer , start a team

the list of money makers in cycling, is very short, and there are very few exceptions that make it really big money wise

Armstrong is one of the few ... but then he did win the TDF 7 times, that kind of track record is not very likely to occur again anytime soon...
and i still wonder how his finances compare to say someone like Michael Shumacher, who won the F1 championship 7 times
or Zidane, Ronaldo, or Beckham... i think it's would be a very sober comparison

so chill out , no need for any big mouthing about any impending invasions, the cycling community is not worth it really...