Wood fencing questions

[bryanthompson]

Have any of you used the pre-built 6'x8' sections of wood fencing before? I'm wondering about the quality, and if it's smarter to get it in these sections or to do the whole thing myself, one plank at a time. Also, is putting up a fence something that can be done by someone with moderate construction skills, like myself? I imagine it's all just a matter of measuring and planning... I can't imagine it being too difficult, and would feel silly paying someone to do it if it's not outside of my abilities. What's it rate on a scale of 1 to 10... 1 being fixing a door hinge, 10 being adding another room onto the house.

Also... when you have a neighbor on one side with a chain-link, do you put the wood fence against the chain link, or do you leave a foot or two? At the moment, I'm not sure exactly where the property line is, so it's possible that my line will already be a few inches from his fence. If this is the case... do I still need to leave enough room to walk between the two fences (for mowing, I'm thinking)?

I have a ton of backyard projects I want to do, but with such a humongous open space, it's akward and uncomfortable just being out there. I don't like being able to see through the backyards of all of my neighbors. Plus, it takes awhile for me to get some of the material collected for some of the other projects I want to do, so I end up with a stack of bricks, some wood, etc., and I don't want the neighbors to see it and think I'm some sort of hillbilly freak. It just takes me a little time

[bryanthompson]

ooh, hmm... that's a big +.

I'm going to run to HD and see if they have some books I can buy about this. I need to learn about lawncare (weeds and clover are killing me here), building a patio (pavers & whatnot), and about building this fence.

[jhc]

The prefab fence sections use much thinner wood than reqular dimensional lumber and is stapled not nailed or screwed.
Clover on the lawn usually denotes a nitrogen deficiency easily fixed with broadleaf weed killer and some fertilizer.
If you are going to install pavers I highly recommend that you rent a plate compactor to go over the 4" stone dust/sand base.

[MBAtarga]

I've instead several wood fences - most of the pre-fab variety. Depending on the length of fence, you might want to rent a power auger. If your HD store rents tools, they'll have them. In my experience, the 1 man is easier to operate than the 2 man. Lay out the post hole locations carefully, double check the distances as you go. You don't want to be off a few inches on every post - the error will add up quickly, requiring more hand digging.

Set the posts with concrete - around 1/2 bag per post. Let the concrete set before nailing the panels. If you decide to build your own, I'd recommend nailing the pickets in place with no gaps - as the wood dries/ages it will shrink and gaps will appear.

As far as the placement of the fence, you probably should check on the local building codes. The existing chain link fence will complicate the matter. You'll need to find out exactly where the property line is. In many places, you are supposed to place the fence ON the property line.

[stomachmonkey]

Don't skimp on the holes. Dig em DEEP.

[Rodeo]

I put in a fence last year, 6 foot cedar panel with 6x6 wood posts and a double gate.

It might vary in other parts of the country, but everything I've read and heard is to NOT put the posts in concrete, they will fail sooner. Just dig a deep hole, put some gravel in the bottom for drainage, and put the corner posts and gate posts even further in, as they will have the most stress.

Keep the bottom of the fence off the ground or it will rot really quickly. An inch or two of airflow underneath makes a big difference. If you have any elevation changes, plan your step ups or downs. A line level works well.

For some reason it is cheaper to buy the panels than the raw lumber. Just make sure you find a shop that uses good lumber and builds them well.

[Paul K]

Bryan,
I built a 6' fence around our yard a couple of years ago. Posts are pressure treated 8' 4x4's set in concrete and boards are standard 6'ers. I used 2x4's as braces- but set them on their sides for strength. I used steel hangers to mount the 2x4's. Treated it with Man-o-war cheap stuff from Wal-Mart. It turned out really well- I can go into precise instructions if you like- I didn't use pre-built panels because I had an elevation change, plus I wanted the wind to be able to pass through. I did concrete the posts in but due to our very dry climate.



Cheers,

Paul

[turbo6bar]

I do also like to set posts in crushed limestone. The local concrete plant sells it by the yard. Set 8' posts 30" down. I have no idea if pre-fab is the way to go. I have always built from scratch. If the ground is sloped well (w/o dips or bumps), I lay a 1x4x12 or 14 flat on the ground, set the pickets on top and nail. This will give you a 3/4" gap under the fence pickets. You can also use a 2x4.

At one of my rental properties, a neighbor wanted to put up a fence. I offered assistance, but he seemed to be in a hurry. In his quest for a perfectly level fence (level on top), he dug a trench and put installed the fence in the trench. Parts of the fence are 4-5" under ground. Yeah, that'll last a long time.

Herbicide with 2,4-D or anything listed for broadleaf weeds will knock out clover. Weed-n-feed fertilizer is an alternative if you have good grass growing. Supplement with a quality pre-emerge in a few months and focus on next year's lawn.

[bryanthompson]

Thanks for all of the tips, guys. Paul, yours looks very nice... pretty much exactly what I had in mind.

I picked up a book about fencing at barnes and noble to help through some of the details. My brother and dad are willing to come out and help, I just need to finish collecting tools and start collecting lumber. I hope to post some pics of my progress soon

[74-911]

I've noticed a lot of wooden fences being put up in this area using galvanized steel posts. Don't know what the cost difference is but should eliminate the problem of posts rotting out.
Might be worth looking into.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Just some thoughts: If you use 1X6 s laying parallel to the ground then they will provide a guide for placing your 1X6s perpendicular to the ground and, when the ground boards start to rot you just have to replace the boards laying on the ground. Your boards six inches plus above the ground will stay nice. Also, applying something to seal the boards will help protect your investment.

[Paul K]

Bryan,
thanks for the compliment! I can post more pics/details on construction if you like- I figured a pretty slick way to put it up.

Cheers,

Paul.

[bryanthompson]

I'd really appreciate any more pics or and any install tricks you found would be really awesome.

Bryan

[Moneyguy1]

Out here we go for concrete or brick fences. Once installed, they last virtually forever. I had wooden fences when I lived "back east" and they were susceptable to wind/snow load damage in the Winter.

They are a bit more pricy, though.

[Paul K]

Bryan,
here's how I did it. First off, you'll need to figure out how high you want it, and how far apart you want the boards. I went for a 1/2" gap because it lets the wind through but gives plenty of privacy. My boards are 6' tall by 5 1/2" wide. there are different grades and styles- some have 'dog-eared' tops. I talked the guy at the lumber yard into letting me pick through so I got straight boards. Anyhow, I spaced my posts 8' apart center to center. You can go longer or shorter- depends on the wind/style/how energetic you are.
Get locates, then dig your holes. Of an 8'x4"x4" pressure treated post, just under 2' should be in the ground. I used a piece of string and a bubble level to get the posts straight- but a laser level will work too. I left the posts for a day for the concrete to set up. If you use rock and tamp it, tamp like crazy- and keep checking the level.
Next I pre-treated the boards, including the 2x4's. (I actually put the hangers on the posts and cut the 2x4's to length before treating- that way the 'open end' gets treated also).
So you'll need to attach the hangers to the posts as soon as the posts are set up. I measured up from the ground, lower at 16", upper at 60". This way, if there is a change in elevation, your fence will follow it. The hangers should be recessed the same depth as the boards are deep, to ensure a flush finish.
Next, hang the pre-treated 2x4's across the spans. There are two screw holes to attach them onto the 2x4. Two reasons why I mounted the 2x4s on edge. 1. Less surface area for rain/snow. 2. The fence will not 'sag' that way.
Picture of the 2x4 bracket...

[bryanthompson]

In this book I got yesterday, they show a lot of really nice looking brick/stone/concrete block fences, but I don't know if I could make it happen. It'd probably look a little out of place in my neighborhood, but I think they do look real classy when it all fits together. What I might do is put a short, 2-3' cinderblock between the patio and the rest of the yard... I think that could be kindof cool looking.

Paul, thanks again for the pics!

[Paul K]

Continued...

Next step is to mount the boards. I used two Irwin quick-grip clamps and it really helped. Set your first board 1/2" from the first post and clamp it onto the upper and lower 2x4's. Check with a level.
At this point you'll need to decide how much of a gap you want underneath. I wanted enough so the boards wouldn't be in contact with wet grass, yet I didn't want the dog to try and dig under it. I think mine has about an inch gap.
Once you have the first board clamped in place, measure for your screw holes. Pre-drill and use ceramic-coated screws to mount. (they won't rust and make streak-marks like un-treated screws). I used green to match the trim on the house (anal or what?) I then stood back and looked at it to determine if it looked right. I measure my holes to be 2 1/2" in from the outer edges of the board, and to hit right in the middle of the 2x4.

Be patient, things go quicker from here.

The next board will go on the same as the first- keep checking the gap, and the measurement to the next post. You might well end up with the last gap being too big/small for a board. I cut my boards lengthways to make them fit.



Basically keep going- stand back and chack every once in a while to make sure you're not heading off too low/high, and you'll be fine. If boards come through that are bad/have crayon marks on them, etc, turn them to face away. Here's a pic from the back side...



Any questions, email and I'll do my best to help.

Cheers,

Paul.

[bryanthompson]

A quick drawing I made after a few rough measurements:


Tomorrow I'm going to figure out who I need to call to find out what the city rules are for this. I'm hoping to start collecting material next week.

[Racerbvd]

Bryan,
Do you have a dog?? I have put up a few of these (helping fellow PCA members and my own) and since I have a dog that loves to dig, and as others have pointed out, setting on the ground is not an option. A cheap fix, that keeps the fence up, and do in is to line landscape timbers under the fence, they are cheap, about $1.99 for a 6 foot timber. I did my fence with these about 8 years ago (both my neighbor & I have diggers) and still holding up well!!

[bryanthompson]

Yep Byron, I just got a dog: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=302038

He's most of the reason for the fire getting lit under my ass with regards to this whole project. Good idea with the digging barriers... I hadn't gotten that far yet