Land of the Free and Home of the Brave

[Evans, Marv]

I don't post many threads, and don't think I've ever posted a new on in the OT. But I just heard something said on the television that caused some odd feelings for me. It was, "America, Land of the Free and Home of the Brave." I hadn't heard that in a long time and realized my first feeling and reaction to it was disbelief and lack of connection with it. I almost instantly thought to myself that we aren't the land of the free and home of the brave anmore.
Anybody else?

[HardDrive]

I think there are brave people in America.

They are the single moms that get up everday and face the world.

They are teachers in inner city schools.

They are soldiers.

They are cops.

They are the quiet guys, that do right by their familys, and don't make a big stink about themselves.


Free? Not so sure on that one anymore.....

[livi]

No matter where you live, it takes a brave person to get up every morning and face a new day. Freedom is mostly in ones mind.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Good points.

I unfortunately feel that "freedom" has become a misused and largely meaningless word in the context of our society. One thing's for sure - there ain't nothin' "free" (as in "free lunch") anymore - in some ways that's good and in other ways that's bad. Used to be things like government representation, the ear of an elected official, having the cops come to investigate a disturbance near your place, etc. were actually "free". Not anymore.

Used to be parking was free too - that's getting harder to find also. . .

Then again, I guess if you're an illegal alien, you get to be here "free", with free healthcare, free taxes, free access to our roadways and schools - not to mention elections. It's become quite a convoluted word, this "free" (or "freedom", if you prefer).

I find it interesting that people consider "bravery" necessary simply to face an average day. Is this something one would expect in a "free" society? I suspect the life and quality of it enjoyed by the people on this forum is considerably above average too. . . Kind of a sobering thought.

[singpilot]

Right on Jeff.

Sobering thought, yes. Especially today.

[Tobra]

It is just that the idiots are the ones that scream the loudest, so you notice them more. A quote that always brings a tear to my eye. It is a young boy asking his grandfather if he were a hero in WW II. The grandfather replies, "No, but I served in the company of heroes." When times are tough, people step up, happened 60 years ago and still happens. There are just lot more people used to having things given to them.

It is still the land of the free and the home of the brave. Just wait for something bad to happen, fire, flood, kid get hit by a car or fall down a. well. Some will flee, or fail to respond well, but some, and probably more than you would expect, will step up, heroicly save someones life, and leave before you even find out their name.

I have been in a few natural disasters, floods, earthquakes, and can tell you, there will be looters, or gawkers standing safely away from the action, but America is still populated by great individuals. You sort of miss them in the crowd sometimes, but they are still there.

The Founding Fathers just assumed the best and the brightest would step forward and lead, it does not seem to have worked out that way much for the last 20 or 30 years though.

Oh, BTW, people that are doing okay with a good quality of life have more time to think about their lot in life. If you are scrambling to survive, you have less time to contemplate the meaning of life. Well educated people are more likely to sit around talking about it IMHO, just look at this thread.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

You mean like Katrina? Yea, that really brought out the best in humanity, didn't it? Between the lootings, the shootings, the rapes, etc. . . Yes, there were a few heroic stories that came out of that mess, but largely it did more to shake my belief in the inherent goodness of people than to bolster it.

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
You mean like Katrina? Yea, that really brought out the best in humanity, didn't it? Between the lootings, the shootings, the rapes, etc. . . Yes, there were a few heroic stories that came out of that mess, but largely it did more to shake my belief in the inherent goodness of people than to bolster it.

Okay, I've been back to New Orleans twice since Katrina to do volunteer construction work. What you see on the news is people complaining about FEMA. What you don't see is groups like mine having to schedule a time with all of the other volunteer groups for a time slot.

"Let's see.... the Baptists are going to be here this week, the Presbyterians are coming next, can you guys come down after that, before the Catholic youth group gets here?"

People have really stepped up to help. Mostly faith-based groups. My gang is mostly skilled construction pros, and the local people we've hooked up with have done a great job having unskilled groups take care of clean up, so when we get there, the site is clean, and materials are stocked on site, so we can hit the ground running.

Another trip in April is now in the planning stage.


Sure, the ugly things get the news cameras. But to see the human spirit first hand has been great. I'm amazed at the positive attitudes so many have shown for all they have gone through.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Good to hear that there's something being done, but it's also a year later. The first reaction of people wasn't necessarily to lend helping hands to one another to overcome a common enemy or adversity - it was "me first and everyone else be damned".

Sadly, this is the message we're constantly fed in our society, so it really isn't a surprise that it was the "default mode" so many people flipped into when rules/structure disapeared. We made those people through the society we create every day. They were simply acting in accordance with our societal expectations and the reality of THAT is maybe what was so despicable about it as we watched the whole mess unfold from the comfort of our living rooms.

FWIW I sent a check to the Red Cross and I did offer to volunteer to go at my work (they asked if any of our people would be willing to go to help rebuild critical infrastructure on-site by offering our professional & technical services - namely telecommunications, which is the primary focus of our office and about 75% of what I work on daily). I figured anything was better than sitting around doing nothing. But again, that's response of "disconnected" people and after-the-fact. I bet the situation would be a lot different if/when a major earthquake hit Los Angeles and half the city was in shambles. I bet it turns into a war zone in very short order - until "outsiders" come in to help and offer their assistance.

Point is, the "values" of our society make the direct/immediate victims of a tragedy painfully incapable of overcoming their selfish attitudes and confronting a tragedy - it isn't until those outside come in that things can be restored to "normal".

It's the reality of this that frightens me about a terrorist attack on a major city with say, a nuclear weapon. If/when THAT occurs, it'll become very obvious how self-centered people are as they steal and kill in the radioactive aftermath while everyone else fumbles around in ineptitude with their collective thumbs up their asses wondering what to do - not all that different than Katrina, really. . .

[Moneyguy1]

P-O-P

What do you expect? Bad news sells. I have worked at some disaster sites as well over the years and the good things done by people is staggering. And, those helping themselves and each other are a bit too busy to be complaining in front of a camera for their fifteen seconds of fame.

The aftermath of a tragedy always proves that entropy is alive and well. A never ending struggle, but like life there are rules.

1. You cant really win
2. You can't even pull even
3. You cant drop out

[techweenie]

I was brought up in the land of the brave.

We faced a supposed continuing threat of nuclear annihilation but were nowhere near as fearful as this society is today.

We saw clearly back then that instilling fear in a population made them malleable and docile. But back then, it was being done to others.

[Evans, Marv]

I agree there are brave deeds done daily by individuals & organizations of different sizes.
When I think of being free (and feeling free), I think of not being overburdened by regulation on every level. (maybe this is an issue with me right now because I'm attempting to build a house now as owner builder) Also being able to express yourself sincerely and do the right thing without being sued and in jeopardy of being destroyed on a personal and financial level.
When I think of bravery, I take it for granted people (in their personal lives) are brave on a daily basis in situations they encounter and responsibilities they meet. Bit, I also think of bravery in terms of those in government, the military, etc. serving the public good and security doing what they know is right because they know it is the right thing to do. Seems like that kind of bravery has been sacrificed to money, power, and influence by almost everybody who supposedly espires to serve the public and national good. If you don't want to play that game, you end up being totally ineffective.

[Moneyguy1]

Marv:

Wow. Well put.

[Dottore]

Originally posted by Evans, Marv
It was, "America, Land of the Free and Home of the Brave." I hadn't heard that in a long time and realized my first feeling and reaction to it was disbelief and lack of connection with it. I almost instantly thought to myself that we aren't the land of the free and home of the brave anmore.
Anybody else?

I think it was always a silly phrase - because the implication is that Americans are somehow freer and braver than others - and that of course is bunk. It seems to me that American are no freer or braver than any other folks in the western world.

I also find the phrase "God Bless America" ridiculous for the same reason - because the implication is that God would actually bless Americans and not others. Surely that implication is the very height of nationalist arrogance. Why not just say "God Bless"?

This kind of nationalism is always silly. I think it was Einstein who referred to nationalism as "an infantile disorder - the measels of mankind".

And Livi, does it really take a brave man to get up every morning? Are we really that f___ed up? Have we really accumulated that much baggage? Watch your children wake up some morning - or your dog - and try to learn from their simple acceptance of the wonder of a new day - and enjoy.

We will all be dead soon enough - so make the most of the time you have.

[competentone]

I watched the program last night on the History Channel called "Lost Worlds" -- it was a re-run, maybe some of you have seen it.

The segment I saw was a look at some of the sites used during WW2 for the Manhattan Project. What was interesting -- and was commented on during the program -- was that literally "whole cities" were built in remote areas of the country in order to do the work needed to complete the project. These cities were built in the matter of months. Today, any attempt to do something similar would take many years -- the "environmental impact" studies alone would probably take at least 2 years!

We've lost much our freedom -- it's been "bureaucratized" away. The "brave people" -- the builders and creators in this world -- still exist, but they have been weighed down with the endless rules and regulations created by the miserable little losers in our society.

The losers are vaguely aware of their own ineptitude, but rather than strive to increase their own competence and abilities and do something productive with their own lives, they instead work to "throw a wrench in the works" for those with ability who are engaging in productive pursuits. The losers cannot succeed with their lives, so they strive to bring the successful people down to "their loser level." Everything from "controlled growth laws" to the progressive income tax has this mentality at its roots.

It's the vandal mentality, the inept person thinks, "I can't create something like this, but since I can smash it to pieces -- or stop it from happening -- I must be as good as the person who can build it."

[Evans, Marv]

Sounds plausible to me!!

[Moneyguy1]

I saw that program too. I forget how many families moved into new homes every day. Interesting what government can do when not fractured by personal desires of the elected officials. Looks like our best days as a functioning republic are behind us.

Speaking of shich..Anyone see the evening news and the "expose" on the personal gain accrued by some congresspeople as a result of add-ons to things like the transportation bill?