Jim's experience(s) aside, why don't you look at a used A4 wagon, or S6. You can prob find one after the first 3 yrs of depreciation for a reasonable amount...mid 20's for the S6.

Leasing can make sense on a new car depending on the rate and the terms for people who trade every few years. (The vast majority of new car customers). You have to first accept that driving a brand new car is by far the most expensive way to get around, no matter how you slice it. The warrantee savings are donkey piss, even on a troublesome car. You could buy a transmission for a Ferrari Modena for less than the depreciation on any new luxury car over 3 years. We are talking tens of thousands of dollars.

That said, if you only keep a car three years and then trade it in for wholesale value, buying (financing) costs+ depreciation can be more than the total of the lease payments + upfront $$. Or not. You have to bring a calculator and pencil+ paper. I used to really help people understand this stuff when I sold cars, but most sales people won't. FWIW, the majority of new cars are leased, not bought, for the last 10+ years. The more expensive the car, the higher the percentage of leases. BMWs and MB are probably 90% lease, minimum. NOBODY that rich is dumb enough to buy one of those things, the depreciation is insane. YMMV, but not really. ;)

Too true.:D

Taking all comments to heart. If I want to roll the dice I could get an Audi S4 for under $20K...I loved those cars when they came out. I know there are some turbo issues, but beyond that I think they are OK. Could always get an extended warranty if I'm paranoid. Also there are thousands of 3-series BMWs coming off lease or used for reasonable prices. The main issue is unless the car is about $2K, I want to finance to stay reasonably liquid. I know a 3-5 year old car still is depreciating, but for an Audi or BMW seems like not quite as steep as the first years. I know the first 2 years the VW would drop quickly.

Those damn Minis don't seem to depreciate though...

I personally stay away from leasing simply because you don't own anything at the end. I know some people (like my step-father) who just want a new car every 2-3 years and are fine with always having a car payment. I tend to keep my cars a little longer and I want to feel like I am actually gaining equity in the car as I pay off the loan.

That's just me though, leasing is an attractive option if you plan on changing cars every couple years.

For what ever reason the S series Audis seem to be totally different cars than the A series. FWIW. The S series are much better built cars, I am unsure why. I have never heard of any problems with the S series cars like the A series.

I have had 2 A-6's now and will never own another Audi, ever. And I love the way this car drives, its all the problems that slay me and the fippant attittude of the dealership when I come in. I truly believe Audi mechanics are the worst in the business. Every problem I have had to get fixed always took 2 or more trips.

If you're set on a new car, add up the total costs of a lease and the buy option, then see what's available in that price range. Banks will probably have lower rates than the dealerships.

I'd personally buy a Honda or Toyota which will get 150-300K trouble-free miles, better gas milage, and has resale value, and then put the "sports" $$s into the sports car.

0.00390 money factor from VW on the GTI. That's whack...

VCI does not charge .00390 (9.4%). The dealer is marking up the rate. Go to a different VW dealer.

at some point it become too much of a game. I found another dealer with the same car, cloth instead of leather, wil do $600 over invoice. Gave the closer guy one last chance to match that deal on his car with leather.

Then make sure you match the 'deal' and not the 'price'. Be careful not to stare at the wrong shell in the game.....

I thought you were quoted $500 over on a lease and $1,600 over on a purchase? That tells me they're marking up the lease a bunch, and 3.9 seems like a bunch. The buy rate is probably in the mid 2s. That probably jumps the payment $50-60/month.

If you call a dealer, ask for the fleet manager, and ask how much over invoice if leased at the buy rate, you'll get to the bottom line a lot faster. Ask them who's got the best rate. Favor rate over residual. Lower residual = potentially more equity later. A subvented lease will help your cause enormously. Problem is it looks like you've only got two candidates. Audi routinely has lease specials; I'm sure VW does, too.

no worries...invoice prices are easy to get (plus or minus a new hundred). I doubt dealer #1 will go $600 over invoice. He wants $1600 over. But there's always another car at another dealer...

That surprises me, whenever I've done the math on lease versus buy, it always works out to buy. Of couse I'm usually doing the math on something like a $40K 3 series. Do the 5 & 7 series depreciate faster and make it work out the other way?