Rumsfeld stepping down!

[speeder]

Originally posted by sammyg2
I have my right arm held up high. I fugure that adfter reading this thread we are buried deep in BS so I might as well save my watch.

For the record, that so and so pelosi publically stated that Bush is incompetent and should not be president.
He has already called her and offered congratulations and has extended an invitation to her to have lunch at the white house and discuss the future. He has demonstrated more class and professionalism than she has.
If they have trouble working together it will be her shoulders, not his.

And why do you suppose that in a space of less than a week, Bush went from telling a crowd of voters that if the Dems won, "the terrorists will win", (or some such horseschit, I'm paraphrasing), to calling Pelosi and making nice? Because he's such a classy guy??

I'm no big fan of Pelosi, she's a typical cynical politician, but for chrisakes, are you really that thick?

It's called politics, and it's being played at the highest level right before your eyes. Bush, or more specifically Rove, play it better and more cynically than anyone in our lifetimes. Now they are getting a taste of hair pie courtesy of their own policies and ineptness, you do know that Pelosi is the one who fired Rumsfeld, right? That is not even being denied by the WH. She laid down the first ground rule for doing business this AM, and it was to schitcan that loser. He is lucky they didn't take him out back and shoot him, if I was the father of one of the 2000 or so soldiers that have died strictly for his ego, I would rip him limb from limb. What a waste.

[m21sniper]

It's called politics, and it's being played at the highest level right before your eyes.

Based on your comments id say you're as duped as anyone else...

[tabs]

Originally posted by speeder
, you do know that Pelosi is the one who fired Rumsfeld, right? That is not even being denied by the WH.

U don't get a guy overnight to be the Secratary of Defense nominee...This was planned in the event of a loss.. an immediate replacement....I'll bet that this was first discussed when Jim Baker 1st came aboard...that one of his recommendations was going to be that Rummy be replaced. Then Rummy would have been replaced later in the year.

[island_dude]

I thought that I heard Bush explain it by saying that: the plan was to make a change after the election. When he addressed the issue of why he stated in the campaign the Rumsfeld and Cheney are both going to stay until 08.

State of Denial claims that right after the 04 election there was a big push to "make a change at the pentagon". They hasd already built a list of options (well before). Bush in the end decided nt to do it. My bet is that they really did can him as a result of the elections, and this was just the last straw. With this administration, politics override all other considerations (such as competence and ethics).

[thrown_hammer]

Originally posted by dd74
Just say: "We lost!" and shut up.

I think there is another party that could of used that advice several times in the past...

[Tim Hancock]

Sniper, you say that we needed more troops for the initial military operation, yet it went rather smoothly. I value your opinion, but cleary the toppling of the SH regime was a walk in the park. The aftermath has grown into a mess, but I am not sure that more troops alone would neccesarily have prevented that. On one hand you state that our losses are low compared to past military conflicts, but in your next breath you claim Rumsfeld botched it from the start.

I do not doubt that some in the military did not like Rumsfeld, but I don't think he can be painted as a bumbling idiot either.

I am guessing that removing Rumsfeld in part was done to keep him from getting grilled by the dem's 2 yr long Iraq inquisition that will begin
in January.

[kach22i]

Rumsfeld was the lamb to get out of Impeachment.

Sacrificial Lamb

[fastpat]

Originally posted by kach22i
Rumsfeld was the lamb to get out of Impeachment.

Rumsfeld should be tried for war crimes, and since there's no statute of limitations on those crimes, he'll always depend on government for protection against arrest, and there'll always be some countries, even in europe, in which he'll be subject to arrest.

Now that idea does make me smile, Tim.

[speeder]

Originally posted by m21sniper
Based on your comments id say you're as duped as anyone else...

How have I been duped? Or more specifically, what part of my post is untrue? Surely you do not agree with Sammy that Bush called Pelosi to congratulate her because he is a classy and professional guy? If so, I've already overestimated you.

Maybe I made a mistake linking U.S. politics to "the highest level", but we were the most powerful country on the planet until fairly recently and what you are seeing is the beginning of some hardball. As in, "Welcome to the NFL". And Rumsfeld did not escape the subpoena power of the U.S. congress by being fired, that's for sure. He'll be busy up on Capital Hill next year.

I generally agree w/ your assessments, and you seem to have real experience and knowledge. Work on your tone and punctuation and you will have the whole package. If you care about such things.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
[B]Sniper, you say that we needed more troops for the initial military operation, yet it went rather smoothly.]

That is hardly the case.

We had a complete and total inability to either A) secure our own LOCs(Lines Of Communications, aka "Supply lines"), and B) we completely lacked the pesonnel to secure the over 50,000 suspected WMD and governmental sites that were critical to the overall objective. This does not even include the thousands of conventional weapons dumps that went unguarded after the war.

We all watched "Victory" being looted before our eyes on CNN. The truth is the post war looting did several times the damage to the Iraqi infrastructure than the shooting part of it did.

I value your opinion, but cleary the toppling of the SH regime was a walk in the park.

First, thanx for the kind word, but, you should really read the books Cobra II and Thunder run.

The actual fight to, and into, Baghdad, was an utter blood bath. It was only because of the complete tactical dominance and unparalled protection levels of the US Army Heavy forces that we did not suffer many times more casualties.

The Iraqis however, were slaughtered at a wholesale pace.

The aftermath has grown into a mess, but I am not sure that more troops alone would neccesarily have prevented that. On one hand you state that our losses are low compared to past military conflicts, but in your next breath you claim Rumsfeld botched it from the start.

The war was lost before the first shot was fired due to insufficient force levels and NO(as opposed to Poor) post-war plan.

I do not doubt that some in the military did not like Rumsfeld, but I don't think he can be painted as a bumbling idiot either.

I am guessing that removing Rumsfeld in part was done to keep him from getting grilled by the dem's 2 yr long Iraq inquisition

I highly reccomend you read the book Cobra II by ret. General Bernard E. Trainor.

It's a real eye opener.

[Superman]

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
Sniper, you say that we needed more troops for the initial military operation, yet it went rather smoothly. I value your opinion, but cleary the toppling of the SH regime was a walk in the park. The aftermath has grown into a mess, but I am not sure that more troops alone would neccesarily have prevented that. On one hand you state that our losses are low compared to past military conflicts, but in your next breath you claim Rumsfeld botched it from the start.

Tim, I know what your problem is. You're only listening to one side of his mouth.

[Superman]

No, I guess you're listening to both sides of his mouth, and perhaps that's the problem.

[m21sniper]

I am trying to help people to understand specifically what the problems in Iraq were in the early stages of the war, please stop spamming up a good and useful thread with your personal invectives.

If you want to flame, start a thread, and we can flame to the cows come home. Otherwise, go build an airport.

[Superman]

Hey, this business of Dumbya inviting Pelosi to lunch......who thinks this is a stroke of genius, or some sort magnanimous gesture? Get real. It was the only rational thing to do. Which is why I am a bit surprised he thought of it.

This is the only president I've ever seen who gets a medal and a Superior Performance Commendation just for having a discussion with someone. Of course, his regular level of performance is such that having a discussion really is above and beyond his usual routine.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by Superman
Hey, this business of Dumbya inviting Pelosi to lunch......who thinks this is a stroke of genius, or some sort magnanimous gesture? Get real. It was the only rational thing to do. Which is why I am a bit surprised he thought of it.

This is the only president I've ever seen who gets a medal and a Superior Performance Commendation just for having a discussion with someone. Of course, his regular level of performance is such that having a discussion really is above and beyond his usual routine.

+1

We expect so little of him. We applaud when he wipes his own arse. Getting him to wash his hands is another thing.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by m21sniper
That is hardly the case.

We had a complete and total inability to either A) secure our own LOCs(Lines Of Communications, aka "Supply lines"), and B) we completely lacked the pesonnel to secure the over 50,000 suspected WMD and governmental sites that were critical to the overall objective. This does not even include the thousands of conventional weapons dumps that went unguarded after the war.

We all watched "Victory" being looted before our eyes on CNN. The truth is the post war looting did several times the damage to the Iraqi infrastructure than the shooting part of it did.


First, thanx for the kind word, but, you should really read the books Cobra II and Thunder run.

The actual fight to, and into, Baghdad, was an utter blood bath. It was only because of the complete tactical dominance and unparalled protection levels of the US Army Heavy forces that we did not suffer many times more casualties.

The Iraqis however, were slaughtered at a wholesale pace.


The war was lost before the first shot was fired due to insufficient force levels and NO(as opposed to Poor) post-war plan.


I highly reccomend you read the book Cobra II by ret. General Bernard E. Trainor.

It's a real eye opener.

This is good stuff, you could write this kind of thing all day and I would read it.

[Bobboloo]

Originally posted by island_dude
With this administration, politics override all other considerations (such as competence and ethics).

LOL! In a nutshell I think that sums it up pretty good.

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by island_dude
With this administration, politics override all other considerations (such as competence and ethics).

With just THIS administration!?!

Good lord, Dude, what about "politics" escapes you?

[fintstone]

Rumsfeld's resignation was already planned. The timing was brilliant. It took the limelight/momentum away from the liberals during their shining hour and reminded everyone who is actually in charge. The liberals would have loved coming after an unpopular sitting Sec Def. Now they are thwarted and will have difficulty mounting an atack against the new one during the "honeymoon" of his new job.

[bt1211]

revisionist history already? Its only been two days.