Aren't the labs on a completely different pay scale than the "real gov't"? That's what I'd heard anyway.

I'm at a DoD lab in Virginia. We're on a "demo" system that's pay for performance, in theory. Some of the salaries are locked into grades, but movement within the grades are based on performance appraisal, just like in the real world (ie, private sector).

It's a 9-5 gig, low stress mostly.

Supe, 85k in the DC metro area isn't <i>that</i> much. Many (most?) civil servants in DC who are more than clerks are making that within 10 years of starting with the gov't.

dvreed, I'd do it. If I were offered a similar jump in salary, I'd take in a heartbeat. 15 years is a long time to retirement. Your time with the gov't is cumulative, so you can always leave for a few years, then jump back in at a higher level, like GS-14, 15 or SES. That way you'd make bank and end up with a sweet pension.

We're not on the typical 'GS' scale as the labs are run by contractors for DOE. However, we do have a compensation table with grades and steps similar to the one posted in this thread.

The apparent goal is to move everyone towards the middle steps of each grade as quickly as possible. But, this leads to individuals at a lower step getting bigger raises than individuals at a higher step (both in same grade) if their annual reviews grade out similar. :rolleyes:

So am I to understand that the pay scale posted is for all federal employees(omitting location modifiers) and that you reach maximum in 15 years (not accounting for grade increasses)?

I mean the girl answering the phone at the front desk won't be making a minimum of $110,363 after 15years will she? This must be for specialized professionals only or something?>

Len, you get step increases each year, grade increases when you improve skills or take on new responsibilities.

A typical receptionist might start at GS-5 and make GS-7 withing 2-3 years. About 12 years after starting, she'd make ~50k. If she wants to make substantially more than that, she'd have to do training, or apply for a job with more responsibilities.

A GS-15, for example, would have highly specialized skills, or be the manager to roughly 3-400 people.

Gotcha, so the GS is not in direct relation to years in.

Depending on the entity the grade and step scale is used differently. I am in a competitive environment we have job panels and compete from promotions with similar grade people in our group. Meaning Program managers compete against PMs and engineers compete against engineers.

We must have jobs that require the grade we are at or above to show the necessary abilities to be promoted.

Grade 7-11 are mostly longevity based with short Time in Grade (TIG) requirements of a year or so per grade. Even so promotion is not automatic. Most step increases are 2-4 years.
Grades 12-15 require the person to be evaluated by the promotion board. Items looked at are schooling (both professional in job, technical, and graduate), job assignments held and current, abilities and record.

Think of them as doors, the 13 door is real wide many make it, the 14 door gets smaller, and the 15 door is even harder. Only the top 8% of our organization go above 15 to become Senior Executive Service. Tig for grade 14 is 24 months but many do not make it on the first go round, tig for 15 is 29 or 30 months (I think) and almost all unless you are superman will do at least 3 years at 14 before being considered. Promotion boards only meet once a year.

This is in a competitive arena.

Many DOD jobs are not competitive, meaning if you get accepted into a 14 slot whammo you are a 14. The acceptance is part of the hiring process. This is where most of the fat reside, since once locked in a spot it is hard to remove or motivate personnel.

Very insightful, thanks.

Plenty of non-supervisory 15's as well. Not many in the military, but they are out there. Not always "specialized skills", but a lot of experience. Then again, I'm on the accounting/finance side of things..

Stick with the Gov't job. I started one right out of college at age 22. My Gov't retirement plan max'ed out when I hit 30 yrs.....So, as an administrator, I retired at age 52. I take enough each month out of my 401K so that I still have my old "take-home" pay. The balance of my 401K continues to rise; so I should give my self a raise?

I'll still get Social Security when I get to age 62.....

Not may private sector jobs allow this...

Steve, I would count "lots of experience" as a subset of specialized skills. I think my manager is mid 13-ish, but there are others in my group (who also work for my manager) who get paid more because they have 25-30 years experience in the field and are SMEs -- Subject Matter Experts. If you've been in for 25 years and know how to play solitaire, you're not going to be a GS-15.

So I agree, I was just trying to give a generalization of what a typical 110k+ guy (or gal) does to earn his keep in the civil service.

Another nice feature of many gubmit jobs is that lots of folks out there hate you (you know who you are), voters are pretty ignorant and it's sexy to float bills and initiative and referendums that do away with your entire office or program. In other words, while I recognize that some gubmit jobs are going to be fairly stable, some offices have to watch, annually or biannually, other people deciding whether you'll keep your job or not. And frankly, sometimes when the answer is "no," it's because you've been doing a good job.

The 1-15 are grades (relative rank). The grade is determined by the position, not the quality or actions of the person filling it. It is based on the skill, experience, and education required to perform the job. If you fill a GS-3 secretary position by hiring a PhD nuclear physicist, they will still be a GS-3. If they stay in the same job for 100 years...they will still be a GS-03.
The steps are determined by longevity in that grade and adequate performance. The person must wait 52 weeks to recieve steps 2, 3, and 4; 104 weeks for steps 5, 6, and 7; and 156 weeks for steps 8, 9, and 10.

You start with 4 hrs of vacation per pay period (2 weeks). There are 26 pay periods per year for a total of 13 days vacation per year. After 3 years the amount of vacation increases to 6 hrs per pay period and to 8 hrs per pay period after 15 years.

Ive heard some good arguments for both sides. Thanks. I just got the company to give me until next Friday in order to make a decision and they offered me a car as well. If it was a 911 Turbo then Id definatley take the job but the company is based in Belgium and I dont think they make any good autos!

I think the Belgians make a cheap version of the Citroen 2CV. :eek: :p

FYI, I decided to stay at my present job and decline the offer today. They have not countered and I dont imagine they will but it was not totally about the money. Thanks for all who posted.