Anyone read You & The Police?

[Rick Lee]

On a rare occasion, I took one of Fastpat's reading suggestions and bought "You & The Police" by Boston T. Party. Love that name! It's an interesting and quick, though not very well edited, read on how to minimize your contact with police and how to behave when it's inevitable. One of my favorite phrases so far is what to say when a cop asks what's in your trunk or briefcase - "lawful personal property". The book is a good reminder of how far our Bill of Rights has been eroded over the years and is likely to get more so in the coming years. While I've never been asked by a cop if he could search my car, I knew even before this book to never ever consent to a search. The book also tells you how to distance yourself from searchable areas before a cop can ask or have any kind of reasonable articulable suspicion or probable cause.

I'll finish the book tonight. I hope it addresses how one should answer that common cop question, "Is there anything in your car I should know about?". I don't know how to say it without irritating the cop, but I think it's never a cop's business what I have in my car. Check this book out.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Where'd you find it? I'd be curious to pick this up.

[Rick Lee]

Got it used on Amazon. Dirt cheap.

[Jeff Higgins]

Funny, I picked it up on Pat's recommendation as well. I have mixed feelings about it; it is very poorly written, and its good points kind of get lost a bit in that. I'm also left with the impression that BTP and his buddies approach this as somewhat of a "hobby", for lack of a better term. He has way more contact with the police than I think I ever will. He seems to address the issue like he believes it to be a daily occurance for many of us. Maybe in his circles it is, but not in mine or for me in particular. I can't remember the last time I talked to a cop. Maybe a traffic stop 2-3 years ago. Don't get me wrong; I think the book is full of good advice. I just think it could be much shorter, more concise, and far better written and edited.

[Superman]

This is on the topic of personal liberties and freedoms. While I do not wish to politicize this thread, a HUGE part of the reason I am a liberal is because it is crystal clear to me that liberals are for regulating business and not people. Conservative legislators and their political party seem very hugely more inclined to support the erosion of personal freedoms and liberties. The "freedom" they talk about is freedom of businesses from regulation, not freedom of people.

Again, I'm not trying to politicize this thread and if someone wants to talk about the above, let's not dirty this thread with that discussion. Like Rick, I strongly believe that police officers should leave me the **** alone unless they have reason to believe I have broken the law.

[widgeon13]

This seems like a stupid question to answer accurately especially if you have something illegal in the car. I have never understood why anyone would say they had something illegal, thusly admitting guilt.

Is there anything in your car I should know about?

"NO" sir

I will make note of the "lawful personal property".

If you refuse a search, don't they need a search warrant? or can they do it on probable cause?

[MichiganMat]

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by widgeon13


If you refuse a search, don't they need a search warrant? or can they do it on probable cause?

They don't need a warrant to search the "immediately grabbable area" of your car. This might be tough in a 911, an SUV or a minivan, since there is no separation between the driver's area and the rear of the car or even trunk (except for a 911's front trunk). They definitely need a warrant (or your consent) to search your trunk or any locked containers. The key, as covered in this book, is to make containers too difficult to open in a reasonable period of time. The works both ways. If you have a gun in a combo-locked briefcase on your front seat, it can take a while to open it, which deflates a police claim of it being a danger to his safety and in your immediately grabble area. Likewise, if it's such a hassle to open a container in your trunk, he cannot detain you indefinitely while trying to get the container open. He has to have a reason to arrest you or then let you, which is when the clock stops ticking.

[Rick Lee]

He also tells of an interesting encounter when he was pulled over for speeding. The clever cop gave him a written warning with the intent of softening him up for a consent to search. The old "Here's a written warning, slow it down a bit. Hey, you don't mind if I take look around your car do you?" BTP of course refused and cop then started really probing, said he thought BTP had a gun under his seat. BTP said he was unarmed. Cop said he can get a sniffer dog there pretty quickly. BTP asked if dogs could sniff out guns made of steel. Cop called for back-up and the second cop talked some sense into the first cop and BTP was sent on his was because "the dog was too far away to get there in a reasonable amount of time." Obviously the cop was on fishing expedition.

[legion]

Originally posted by Superman
that liberals are for regulating business and not people.

Yes, the bans on foie gras, smoking, and gun ownership were all passed by the Democrat-controlled (are their ANY Republicans in any level of government in Chicago?) city council. That's regulating corporations (which are collections of people) for you.

Originally posted by Superman
While I do not wish to politicize this thread...

BS. You wanted to make your point and immediately cut off any response, because that would "politicize this thread".

[Superman]

Legion, if you wanna try to establish that your beloved party is supportive of personal liberties and freedoms, then LET'S GO. Start a thread, and get your data ready. How much do you hate the ACLU? What does the "L" stand for? What about the Patriot Act? Let's talk about drug testing and what party supports that. Let's talk about police searches and whether a "liberal" court or a "conservative" court is most likely to uphold those. If you've got the idea that your party does the best job of protecting individual citizens, then you need a discussion about this. Start a thread.

BTW, the DEFINITION of a corporation is exactly the opposite of what you said. If there is one thing a corporation, legally is NOT, it is NOT a collection of people.

You really need to listen and read more.

[legion]

How many times has the ACLU sued the Boy Scouts? They are out, ironically, to silence groups they do not agree with. 30 years ago they were different, but today they are just another group with an agenda.

[Superman]

Yeah, I thought so. Any time you change your mind and want to defend the position that Republicans protect individuals' rights, just start the thread.

ACLU. Prayer in school. Imagine this were a Muslim nation and your child is entering the school system. Imagine that Islam was the overwhelming religion among citizens and especially among legislators and Congress members. And of course, they class to start each morning with the class singing Muslim chants. With your child in the middle of that classroom. Are you okay with that?

To some folks, everything is just very simple. Then there is the group of thinkers.

[Rick Lee]

Ok, back to our regular scheduled programming of hijacking and politicizing threads....

Anyway, I recommend this book. Supe, you shouldn't buy it because I hope you get yourself into trouble with the cops and then rely on the ACLU to bail you out.

[Superman]

You'll need more cops when you eliminate welfare. Then somebody will have the brilliant idea of privatizing police services, and we'll have competing groups of goons with guns and badges. It's all about commerce Rick. Including and especially this topic.

[legion]

Where did I claim Republicans were better guardians of civil liberties? I just disputed your claim the Democrats claim this trophy. Both parties pick and choose which rights they choose to defend and which they think are less important. I don't recall any Democrats standing up for the 2nd Amendment (at least those that do are conveniently ignored by the media).

[dafischer]

This started out interesting....

[Tobra]

Originally posted by dafischer
This started out interesting....

+1, thanks stuporman

Probable cause is a pretty tenuous thing, slightest vapor of it and they jsutify looking. I have only been harrased by law enforcement once.

Nevada State Trooper came around a corner too fast and completely over the center line on a two lane road near Lake Tahoe. He nearly hit me, so I flipped him the bird(not a pelican) as I could not tell it was a police vehicle, due to the coating of dirt and no lights on top(full size chevy blazer).

He of course whipped around, so I pulled over in a safe area and waited for him. He was out of control with fury, and I thank my lucky stars that I was not alone, or I would have undoubtedly taken a severe beating for resisting arrest and attempting to escape.

It was about 25 degrees, with blowing snow. He gets me out of the car, and does a sobriety test, asking if I take drugs, I look like I take drugs apparently, so he has me tilt my head back to look up my nose. I asked him politely if I could get my jacket out of the car, "No, you'll live" He cited me, disrespecting a peace officer or something of that nature. I and the 5 friends in the car who heard the whole thing, filed a formal complaint against him and he got 2 weeks off without pay.

Perhaps it is because I am white, or because I treat others with respect, but I have never had a problem with the police aside from the one above.

I would never consent to a search of anything. Oh, and if you ever are drunk driving and wreck your car. Leave it, get to the nearest bar and start drinkin'. That way, when they come to get you, you are drunk because you were distraught over wrecking your car and started drinking immediately after having wrecked your car

[Superman]

I regret the digression. Didn't mean to hijack this.

On those rare occasions when I have an opportunity to speak to the folks in Blue, I am enormously respectful and cooperative......to a point. Indeed, I have walked up to State Troopers out of the blue to tell them how professional I notice Troopers are, and how much we appreciate their service to the community. No kidding. I really think that.

Anyway, when the police person walks up to the car, my window will be rolled down and my hands will both be on the steering wheel. I'll offer whatever paperwork they request. Then of course, the trick questions begin. "Do you know why I stopped you?" "Do you know how fast you are going?" "Have you stopped beating your wife?" The answers are "No," "Yes" and "No."

I have not been placed in a situation where a police officer asks me whether I have his permission to search my vehicle. I almost certainly would refuse. But....I look like a 49 year-old Altar Boy.

In fact, if the officer starts going down the road of harrassing me, I will become less and less cooperative. Not antagonistic or disrespectful, but not cooperative. Naive. Ignorant. I would answer his harrassment questions by saying I do not know what my rights are, and will respond to his requests after I have gotten advice as to what they are. If he tries to pretend to be my attorney and interpret the law for me, I will thank him but decline.

I might at some point tell him I believe I have broken no laws and that I should be on my way. But ultimately, if he wants to arrest me, I'll go along peacefully. And continue to reject requests until I have received legal advice. I happen to know that attorneys and judges prefer that motorists and policemen refrain from practicing law or offering legal advice. In other words, I think the strategy described above, in court, would seem at least somewhat reasonable. And......getting me there will not be fun and easy for the policeman.

It's like parking your bicycle next to another bicycle that's much nicer than yours. Also, some police guys are just uniformed bullies. I've dealt with bullies before, and they don't have the stomach for a fight. They greatly prefer hastling people who roll over.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Where'd you find it? I'd be curious to pick this up.

If you ever go to a gun show the guy who wrote it (he lives here in Phoenix) is usually at most of them West of the Rockies.

Have had a copy for years and its good reading.

Joe