"What Killed General Motors?"

[Seahawk]

I'm very practical about the vehicles I buy, but luck is a lady...

My F150 has been bullet proof over three years.
Tacoma BP over 7.
Ford Focus (Au Pair-mobile) has 170k on the clock with zipply problems.
Izuzu Trooper is at 140k with nothing but the basics.
964 rock steady.

I have, of course, just jinxed the whole f'ing fleet

[sammyg2]

The greed of the union and laziness of the workers killed GM and Ford.

[john70t]

The greed of the shareholders and laziness of the management killed GM and Ford.

The workers just built the cars.

[HardDrive]

I find all of the 'Don't buy a Ford' business a bit silly. There are plenty of horror stories that can be found with every manufacturer. 98-99 Boxsters engine disintergrating for example.

I had a 1993 Ford ranger that was the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. I was on the original clutch at 124k. No rust after 8 years in the mid-west salt bath. Dad is just around 80k on his F350 diesel, and his truck has never been in for anything other than maintainance.

Ford and GM are suffering from the sins of their past management. The insane benefits give aways of the past are killing them, and it will be 15-20 years for that washes out of the system.

Its should be noted that both Ford and GM are doing just fine world wide. They are getting killed in North America, but you would be shocked at how many Buicks are on the streets of Beijing, China.

I'm actually going to put my money where my mouth is and buy up some Ford stock. I think its going to double in the next 3 years.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by hytem
The latest nail in the coffin, so to speak, has come with the government's failure to put mpg restictions on SUVs and small trucks

[kach22i]

Originally posted by john70t
The greed of the shareholders and laziness of the management killed GM and Ford.

The workers just built the cars.

Correct, but it's the management which bows to short sighted and short term pursuit of greed which in the end is their own undoing.

[lendaddy]

Their government style bureaucracy.

[p911dad]

I don't think gov't fleet mileage rules have any effect on anything. If you watch at how GM, Toyota and Ford, etc. manipulate these rules to their advantage, it is apparent it is one more game we don't understand. I believe the market will make the actual mileage figures rise, not more gov't. rules. If you don't make a car with good mileage, it won't sell in large numbers.
What really happened is GM and Ford got caught playing the mileage game with the high-profit SUV's and they didn't have chairs when the music stopped and gas prices went sky-high a few years ago, causing the soccer moms to desert them. Since they both run virtual total cradle to grave social programs with their union partners, the cost structure of both companies is so high and the cash burn rate so outrageous, any blip in the receivables is a crisis. The UAW workers are as efficient as in any european factory and they enjoy the same high standard of living. The Japanese are pretty fat too. Just wait until the Chinese slave labor built cars start showing up Walmart showrooms and that's when the fun will really start. Stay tuned, that ought to be reality in 2010 or 11.

[gduke]

the Japanese manufacturers are years ahead of the American manufacturers and are trying to play catch-up to a moving target. An ex. is the new Toyta Tundra. I own a 2004 2wd Quad cab w/ a 4.7l engine and was looking at the new ones last week and the big 4wd Cmax cabs. w/ 5.7l are rated at the same mpg as my 2wd 4.7l. BTW, they are made in Teaxas and Indiana and the engines are built in Alabama , I think.

[MRM]

Don't buy Ford stock now. It will bottom out in about three years. Buy it then.

[porsche930dude]

This is how i see it. American vehicles have always been simple overweight bad on gas bad on emitions yada yada. Japanese have always been all about reliability economy and compactness. European have always been complicated, high priced, high quality, not nessesarily great gas milege but decent and they always try to come up with new ways of doing things and being ahead of technology thus the high price.

Fast forward to today. The american government makes new rules. The japanese have all that experiece under their belts so metting them is no problem just keep doing what theyre doing. European same deal just tweek some stuff to make it pass ameircan standards and their good to go. American vehicles hah. They have to change the way they do everything. Things need to be complicated and high quality. Those are two things american vehicles have never been. Not in the same sentence anyway

[nota]

judgeing by china made tools and motorbikes
their super low quality metal willnot hold up in a car very long
so I see little threat from them in auto building

GM and ford are both too big to be allowed to fail
I see a bailout just like mopar got or a forced merger
capitalisum is a nice idea but really is not as pure as the neo-conned want to believe esp at the very top
money buys goverment
call it socalisum, or pratical politics,
it still is not the produce or die, the little guys face

fire all the bean counter types
sure like that will ever happen

[911pcars]

"GM and ford are both too big to be allowed to fail"

I notice no. 3 (Chrysler) is missing from your statement. They're doing so well, MB is trying to unload them. No luck yet.

OTOH, Toyota has to watch out. Huge already, they've recently experienced more qualty-control issues than expected, something almost unheard of until recently.

Sherwood

[M.D. Holloway]

Workers Strike At Belgian GM Plant Over Layoffs, Restructuring Plan

Manufacturing.Net - April 27, 2007

BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - Workers at the General Motors Opel plant in Antwerp went on strike Thursday to protest plans to lay off 1,400 workers under the company's restructuring plan.

The plant, which currently employs 5,100 people, is facing a phaseout in production of the Astra model under plans announced by GM earlier this month. The next generation of the Astra will be built at plants in Germany, Sweden, Poland and Britain.

The company said it would like to shift Antwerp's production to building 80,000 Chevrolet model cars, and possibly the production of another unspecified 60,000 cars of another model.

Unions, however, said they would demand higher production quotas to save jobs at the plant, which currently makes 220,000 cars annually.

They vowed to continue their strike until next Thursday when GM's European management visits the plant to discuss the restructuring.

''People have started to count (and) 80,000 is too little to save the factory,'' Rudi Kennes, from the socialist ABVV union told VRT Television.

The Belgian national and Flemish regional governments have lobbied hard in recent months to stave off a growing list of layoffs in the country's faltering car manufacturing sector.

Similar restructuring moves at Volkswagen's Brussels plant led to 3,500 jobs being cut there after the company decided to shift production of its Golf model to two German factories.

[Evans, Marv]

Detroit:
1. Crappy cars (some of us remember the '60s thru some of the '90s).
2. Unions
3. Pandering to share holders & doing what it takes to just make the next quarter look better.

[Lothar]

No vision
No brains
No spine

[daepp]

Cars that looked fast but weren't!

or

Chrome plated plastic - yuck!

[widebody911]

[Superman]

It's the workers. They are to blame. It's the workers' fault.

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally posted by tabs
Management by Commitee.

And management by accountants.