dunebuggy rental damage: options?

[nostatic]

ok, so the boy and I are on vacation at Pismo Beach. Yesterday we rented atvs, and today we rented a rail buggy. Not cheap, but I gre up riding/driving buggies out in the desert, so I thought it would be fun for us. They take a $300 damage deposit (on amex). We got the orientation, did a walk around, and headed out. Turns out that the boy really wasn't digging it as it was could and a pretty rough ride. I did a bit of cruising through some bowls, but he wasn't digging that, so we ended up pretty much putting up and down the sand highway, only staying out for an hour. I never was at wot, didn't jump it, or hammer it at all...the boy just wasn't into it.

When I came back the guy noticed the toe was funny (so did I once he mentioned it. Further inspection revealed a bent tie rod end and support member. I didn't notice it before we went out and neither did he. But I didn't whack *anything*. This was strictly normal operating conditions and below. The tire wasn't flat or off the bead either. The bent part was very rusty, and I couldn't see any "fresh" metal at all. Black paint was cracked off, but it was rusty underneath.

So they're holding the $300 cc deposit to "talk about" whether to charge me for the damages. My counter argument was that I didn't abuse the thing, and I have an expectation that I'm not renting a POS that will bend under light driving conditions.

So what do you guys think? Does this look like damage that could happen without really pushing the buggy? I know what hard driving is both on track and in the dirt, and I literally was at about 3/10s with this thing. If I'd actually abused it or done a big hit, I'd have no issue with paying the damage deposit, but...


the right front



the left front

[asphaltgambler]

That looks like it won't buff out. I'd say a pretty serious hit. If you (or the rental co) did not notice it I'd say you're on the hook for the repairs.

[nostatic]

yeah, I'm assuming that but what pisses me off is that I didn't do a serious hit. Not even close.

[Jim Richards]

Ask the fella if his business records show that this damage has already been charged to a previous customer's cc. Tell him that's the first question your family lawyer asked.

[JeremyD]

Looks like you could have bought the damn thing for $300.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by JeremyD
Looks like you could have bought the damn thing for $300.

LOL!

Most (if not all) the quads and buggies are pretty thrashed at Pismo... but then you kind of got to expect that from rental off road vehicles.

I rented a two stroke quad there that would leak gas if it was not at WOT... so I just drove it at WOT for three hours (had to refuel twice).

IMHO it looks like old damage but (Sorry Todd) I think your SOL for not noticing it before taking it out.

[notfarnow]

I call bull$hit.

If you bent the circled area below, it should be clean metal showing.



IMHO, the only way you caused that bend is if you smoked peyote then drove through a time/space continuum vortex that gave it enough time to rust.

I consider myself an expert when it comes to examining fresh suspension damage. My wife has an uncanny ability to hit the biggest, deepest potholes no matter how far off to the side they are. Sometimes she sees them, and then by looking at them she inadvertently drives into them. Curbs too. It used to drive me crazy, now it's funny. We get an alignment every 2-3 months, no kidding.

[nostatic]

I thought that given the bend I would see some fresh metal, but it is nothing but rust. I didn't notice it when we started, but I took another pic of us on a dune not long after we started and I can notice a bit of toe out.

EDIT: they just called..."we figured out that was previous damage...you're not liable."

Well, the day just got a bit better. Now to find lunch.

[notfarnow]

Wonder how many people have paid for a new tie rod on that thing.

[GO DAWG GO]

Nostatic,

I know you think I'm a grammar challenged goofball but, I was a rail builder for years and know a few this about this stuff. I am also trained and certified in aircraft safety and crash investigation. The damage on the right spindle and Idler arm was a pre-existing condition. This is why.

Compare the symmetry of the two sides. The right side idler arm in question is highly distorted and tie rod end is severly bent. If you did this much damage you would know it. You would have to have hit a massive object at a high rate of speed to transfer that much energy and cause that much damage. Second if you notice the undisturbed side has wrinkle paint pretty much intact. The damaged side, the paint has been gone long enough for heavy surface oxidation (rust) to permeate the unprotected area. Typically when steel is rapidly twisted and distorted the stresses propogating through the material will expand and contract exceeding fast shedding any type of finish such as paint. In this case this area endured exceedingly high excelleration/excursions that shed the paint some time ago. I find it hard to believe the paint had been removed from the exact area that became damaged recently. Rust surface oxidation will exfoliate or sluff off when external/internal sresses/excursions are experienced.

I would build my case this way.. Ask him how the paint was removed from the damaged area. Show him the opposing side with the intact wrinkle paint. Why is the paint missing from the area around the tie rod end. Explain that if you had caused this damage there would be some evidense of bare steel where the structure was bent and expanding on one side and contraction on the other. What about the rust where it is damaged. Paint does not like to remain on disturbed weldments and distorted steel. I deal with aluminum airframes but the same type of stresses cause the same affects on both materials.

Tell him to explain the rust on the damaged areas.. That's the dead giveaway. If he wont return your money than challenge it with AMEX.

Hope this helps....Buddy!

Bob

[GO DAWG GO]

excelleration s/b accelerations This is embarrasing...Microsoft has corrupted my mind.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by nostatic
I thought that given the bend I would see some fresh metal, but it is nothing but rust. I didn't notice it when we started, but I took another pic of us on a dune not long after we started and I can notice a bit of toe out.

EDIT: they just called..."we figured out that was previous damage...you're not liable."

Well, the day just got a bit better. Now to find lunch.

Kind of restores you faith in mankind don't it!

I was also thinking:
A." How many people have paid for this damage?"
B. "That is probably less than $100 in parts at a good junkyard."

But all is right with the universe... carry on... carry on...

[The Gaijin]

Originally posted by nostatic
ok, so the boy and I are on vacation at Pismo Beach.

This is what gets me mad. Here you are on vacation and you are in no mood to be scammed. I would bring this up with Amex. I wonder how many other renters have paid this $300? I bet you could find out with a few well worded letters.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by robert_snyder
Nostatic,

I know you think I'm a grammar challenged goofball but...

-a bunch of really good tech info-

Hope this helps....Buddy!

Bob

*sniff*....I love you man!

I'm certainly no rail builder, but when I was a kid my dad built a dune buggy from a vw pan, and I've been around enough race cars to have a decent understanding. When I looked at it my first instinct was:

a) I never had any impact anywhere near enough to twist it like that...likely would have blown the tire
b) how the hell would a freshly twisted piece of metal not have *any* clean metal showing? I know that rust can go deep, but still...

At any rate, I'm off the hook, and next time I'll do a better walk around. Would be interesting to look at the books of the rental place. It seems like it is a pretty good money machine...

[scottmandue]

Way to go static... I told you the old vinegar and salt trick would work!

If I had known you were going to pismo I would have requested you walk up by the sea gypsy hotel and see is the rusty old VW beetle with the duck tail is still there... still kicking myself for not getting a picture of that.

Hope you had some chowder... did you do any surfing?

[the]

Originally posted by nostatic
Would be interesting to look at the books of the rental place. It seems like it is a pretty good money machine...

Yeah, it'd be interesting to see their books. Both sets of 'em!

[GO DAWG GO]

Nostatic,

Glad things are A-OK...Have a great time with your son!.. Rap when you get back!

Bob

[Tobra]

Originally posted by notfarnow
Wonder how many people have paid for a new tie rod on that thing.

good question, but even if that were happening, no law enforcement agency would pursue it, good scam.