1945
 

I hope some of you can help me and a friend at work.
My friends Grandfather was one of the U.S. Soldiers that went into Hitlers bunker after he commented suicide. Well, spoils go to the victors. They took "stuff" out of Hitler's desk, mostly pictures of himself and Eva Braun. What my friend did bring that maybe someone can shed some light on is this award with the certificate that goes with it. Sorry about the quality of the pictures.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188061092.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188061140.jpg

Here's more pictures
Any comments or recommendations on where I can research about these things
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188061373.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188061390.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188061409.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188061426.jpg

The pictures I did see had Agfa Lupex on the back or Photo Durr (Dorr) Ansbach

Thanks

German Cross:
http://uboat.net/men/decorations/german_cross.htm

More info:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/german_cross/german_cross_main.htm

Wow! Historic stuff indeed. Agfa is a film and photo paper maker...kind of the European Kodak...

Some info on Herr Ettinger:
http://www.ww2awards.com/person/4142
I love Google! :D

You sure this is a good idea bringing this up? These things are the property of the US Government and have been stolen.

U have the award with the award certificate signed by Keitel. A little more research is needed on 1st Lieutenant Ettinger. If he was part of Hitlers staff and was in the Bunker at the end you award is quiet valuable. The award alone without the receipants name is worth $500 anyway. with his name and research up to $5000 would be my guess. The action Ettinger was involved in can be researched by looking at the history of the regiment and date of the action.

Tabs knows the price of everything...

Yeah right. I'd like to see the government waste its time on this one. Now if it were an art object that could be traced back to a Holocost victim then it would be another matter. Even then the government has to pry the object out of the current owners hands.

Not really...I am surprised alot. I have seen recent auctions of German Medals where a little medal for 700 air combat missions went for $750.00.

What I have always kept my eyes open for are those objects of art that were liberated from the Nazi liberators. So far I havn't really put my hands on anything that I know of.

Also when looking at Chinese art objects I have been keeping my eyes open as well. Simply because the British sacked and destroyed the Chinese Imperial Summer Palace in 1864. Untold amounts of stuff was liberated from the Emperor at that time. I have seen a desk on the Antique Road Show that was of Imperial quality.

Thanks for the info guys. I did a search on Kurt Ettinger and came up with a Swiss bank account from these guys:
CRT-II

This is the official information website for the Claims Resolution Tribunal of the Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation against Swiss Banks and other Swiss Entities. The Claims Resolution Tribunal is responsible for processing claims relating to assets deposited in Swiss banks by Victims or Targets of Nazi persecution prior to and during the Second World War.

I don't think that Ettinger was close to the hitler circle but looks like he was a high enough offical or he made a "name"for himself to be on the list of CRT.

A 1st Lieutenant is not going to be a high ranking Nazi, but he certainly could have served on Hitlers staff, as part of his domestic help or security team.

Was your friend's grandfather Russian? The Americans never got to Berlin. They stopped and let the Russians have it.

A time of war does not justify being a thief.
I'd tell him to give the stuff back to the German government. it doesn't belong to him and never did. If you'd like I can research the German consulate's phone number ;)

anything you find in a bunker when busy winning from whoever built that bunker is definately spoils of war, hence the term "spoils of war"

the current German government, has no legal claims towards stuff owned by the german government at that time, if it did, any german WW2 artifact, anywhere on this planet, could in fact be considered stolen, any bullet, watch, mauser, tank and so on...

furthermore, if this award was given to this lieutenant, then it would be stolen from a person, not from the German government, but as it stands , this guy is probably long gone even if he wasn't killed right there in Berlin in 45

you could claim that his family has legal rights
but you would be wrong again, as theft from private person still has a statutory limitation of years, not decades, that is , IF you want to call it theft, not spoils of war

it's not a war crime such as genocide, and systematic theft of art and possessions from those you "genocided"
which is something that does not have a statutory limitation like simple theft has

So Tabs - I have a pristine, perfect, original signature of the Fuehrer on an award document with all the Third Reich whistles and bells. Any idea what this might go for?

Kurt is correct BUT they did not get everything that was in the bunker. There were people going in and out for months after the war ended, and finding things right and left.

Jesset,

Good finds and do some research to see exactly what you have. At least you know that its not been dug up from some gravesite like the Russians are doing. Loads of the WW2 stuff on Ebay have been found this way and its sickening.

I wonder how there was anything left for an American to find after the Russkies were done with the place. IIRC, the US, UK and France occupied everything west of the Elbe, but later traded what became East Germany west of the Elbe for an allied sector of Berlin. But I don't think that happened for a few mos. after the fall of Berlin, which was around May 8th. Hitler's charred remains supposedly turned up in Magdeburg years after the war. And from what I've read Hitler was so far gone by the last days of the war, that he'd have had trouble signing his own name to anything.

Ooops. Just noticed the date was June 1942, which was around the time of Heydrich's assassination. Did Hitler even have a bunker in Berlin by then? I thought he was still based in the Reichskanzlei then and his HQ was the Wolf's Lair in eastern Prussia. Anyway, whose signature is on that certificate? Keitel's? I can't make it out.

there was an old bunker built in 36


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuhrerbunker

The complex was built in two distinct phases, one part in 1936 and the other in 1943. The 1943 development was built by the Hochtief company as part of an extensive program of subterranean construction in Berlin begun in 1940. The accommodations for Hitler were in the newer, lower section and by February 1945 had been appointed with high quality furniture taken (or salvaged) from the Chancellery along with several framed oil paintings.


but do you refer to the papere where it states haubtquartier ??
that just mentions where the gold cross was issued, not where it was found