Dissapointed
 

I'm four weeks through my 8-week welding class.

So far, I've learned how to make puddles with an oxy-acetylene torch on scrap metal and how to read welding-symbols...not what I was looking for when I signed up for the class (and not mentioned in the course description).

So I turn to the brain-trust here for some of the information I was looking for about welding.

If I wanted to do a roll-cage or build a tube-frame for a car from scratch, what form(s) of welding would give the best results? Stick (SMAW), MIG, TIG? What kind of welding machine would I use?

Legion, I learned more about welding from Richard Finch's books than the classes I took. He's got a book called "How to weld damn near anything" and another one titled "Performance Welding". He is THE MAN when it comes to welding (and Corvairs as well. Have used his books for decades...He even featured one of my Corvairs in his Corvair Air Conditioning book).

Straight answers, great technique-building hints. Jessee James even quotes him in many of his writings as the best welding instructor.

I will order that book.

I built my car trailer, a 1300# BBQ trailer, my track car rollcage and my buddy built a huge trailer mounted BBQ smoker with my 110v Lincoln MIG welder from Home Depot.

It will weld 5/16" think material or all the way down to sheet metal.

You can weld with straight C02 like all the big production and construction welding shops.
The tri-mix/bi-mix gasses look a litle prettier.

You will learn how to weld if you practice with a small pile of various steel scrap and a few hours.

Go for it!


KT

TIG and MIG are both excellent. That said, I still use Oxy/Acc most of the time for small things.

Sounds like the instructor is moving the class at a very slow pace instead of realizing that you are at idle when you should be in 3rd gear by this time.

The labs are moving unbearably slow. The lectures are moving at light speed. I think we are 5-6 chapters ahead in the lectures than the labs. The instructor lectures from the notes provided with the book, and never expands on or gives any context to any topic. When asked questions, he rambles around the topic at hand until the student gives up asking.

The class has nine people in it. A friend and I are trying to learn welding as a hobby. The other 7 people are trying to learn it as a career. We are about 10 years older than the other people in the class. So far, we weld better too. Instructor gives a lab assignment, and we go do it. Most of the rest of the class is 2-4 assignments behind us.

MIG seems to be the do-all setup now. You mention roll cages and tube frames, and MIG will be fine.

I took 1 semester of welding in college, and everything else I know I learned from other professional welders. Once you have the basics down, your best teacher is PRACTICE. Welding is a skill that must be used in order to become and remain proficient.

Well I teach welding just over the border from you. Our students get that stuff as well but if you sign up for specific things we tailor it towards your needs. I had a retired airline pilot make a 1/4 steam locomotive cause he wanted to learn how to build pressure vessels. It really depends where you sign up and what they teach. we do it all. even show the ocasional fuch weld repair, and mag case repair:D

MB911, I have a couple of questions for you on Mag Case welding, I'll send you a PM.

Chris, I have built several roll cages, swaybar strut-bars, and even a full tubular chassis using a Lincoln Tig 225. If you want good solid welds that penetrate your material and form a good structural weld, I would use Tig and fill rod. I tried using my Mig welder on the tubular chassis, but getting the inside tight spots was tough, with the Tig, it worked beautifully. What I really love about Tig welding rollbars and the sort it being able to "beehive" the weld with out it getting ugly. Hmm, is it time for a welding get-together? (Just kidding) :)

Just my .02 worth.
-Nick

When I look at the seams on SSI's or Fabspeeds I just think I'll never get to that level. A neighbor is also doing a night class now, so I'll see what he thinks of it before I sign up.

I thought approved roll cages required a specific grade of tubing that was supposed to be tig welded? But this contradicts me....

http://www.snoreracing.net/post/05rulechange.htm

I would mig weld using a 'good quality' machine. i.e. not a 115 Volt home machine. What you see at your course is likely a very good machine. 035 wire. All it takes is practice, which, of course is why you signed up...

yeah we can have a 1 day welding class here. bring your porsche:)

Hang in there Legion, You know more than I do about welding.

My father was the state fair welding champ when he was younger, so I asked him what I should do when I decided to learn how to weld.

He told me to purchase the books others have suggested. He also suggested I buy lincoln's mig 110 because it's portable and so easy to use (he uses a hobart). I bought the flux core model of the welder and love it. I've also bought the mig kit, but have not yet installed it. The nice thing about the lincoln is you can just flip up the side panel to see how you should set up the welder for different thicknesses of metal. Easy.:)

My big tips: (and I'm a beginner)

1. find a scrap yard and ask for some scraps to practice on.
2. make sure the metal is clean.
3. rest your arm on your other arm or leg while you,re welding as shaking will make a bad weld.
4. if the welder is setup correctly it'll sound like you're frying eggs.
5. do not weld galvanized matl as it has toxic fumes.
6. wear a full mask, not just goggles like i once did.:o
7. weld in a well ventilated space due to fumes.
8. practice.
9. go buy the welder.

funny side story. my house almost burned in a wild fire. when we evacuated, all I took was my cpu, pictures, some clothes, the wife, dog and my welder. I'm still teased about that.

have fun,

Dale

Lincoln weld pack 100 comes even with a video and get a couple of books too. You need gas. Then start by making your own welding cart, a bbq and other non critical things. Soon you will have a pretty good weld going before you go to any structural work.

Cheers, George

Yep, that's the one I have.
I just don't ever see the need for a machine that will weld metal thicker than 5/16".

I like using .023 wire.


KT

I think I use the same wire. Also, if you need to weld thicker than 5/16, just get a cheap stick welder. :D I have welded on my roll bar, my oil cooler and seat adapters on the SC. Many many other things around the house and for fun.

George

I think I use the same wire. Also, if you need to weld thicker than 5/16, just get a cheap stick welder. :D I have welded on my roll bar, my oil cooler and seat adapters on the SC. Many many other things around the house and for fun.

George

I learned welding back in high school auto shop over 20 years ago...Yikes!!


KT

geez that class is moving slow. the class i took was opposite; maybe 5 minutes of instruction in the classroom and the rest of the time was spent playing with equipment. we were doing tig by the 4th class i think.

it's good to learn the theory and certainly the career guys will need it but for hobby use i think it's all about practice. welding certainly is an art.

perhaps your classmates would like to get together and talk with the instructor about speeding up a bit?

Ive had my Craftsman 110v wire fed/mig for about 17yrs. Hasnt let me down yet. Welded everything from lawn furniture to rollcages with it.( and half of my friends stuff too.)

I finally started MIG/GMAW today. I really like it. I did all of the projects in 2 hours. It took me 16 hours to do the same projects with oxyacetylene and 8 hours with stick/SMAW.

What does a decent home MIG outfit run? What does gas rental run?

The lincoln weld pack is about $400 including tax. Uprgade to gas abotu 120 without bottle. The bottle costs about $150 with a first fill. Refills are less than $50, IIRC. Never needed a refill, so far. So, you are in about $700 for a decent setup.

George

That's not bad at all. Do you know what type of power source (inverter, etc.) and what kind of polarity (DCEP, DCEN, AC) that setup is capable of?

Legion, if you are serious about welding mainly thin walled tubular structures, you would be best served with a tig welder, but it takes a bit more time to master. A mig welder typically is the easiest for the average Joe to rapidly learn to use in his garage though. When making relatively short welds on "thin walled" tube clusters, a mig will either start out cold then right as you finish be just right, or will start out just right, then become too hot. With tig, you can vary the heat as needed to keep perfect penetration thru-out the weld. The larger the tube diameter (and weld length) the less of a problem this becomes, but I can tell you that on smaller tubing, a mig welder just will not be able to do as good of a job if the welds are critical.

I learned to weld solely by practising on scrap, reading books and by talking to pros. I had my fill of "school" in my teens and 20's.

BTW, Finch used to run a weld departement making aircraft engine mounts and he claims that only 4130 rod should be used when welding 4130 parts (I agree if the part is later to be heat treated). Well tell that to the Indy teams and aerobatic aircraft manufacturers who use ER80S-D2 on all of their thin walled 4130 tubular structures that will be used in the "as welded" condition. IOW, even the experts will disagree somewhat sometimes and it pays to do your own research.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_180/

This is what my son and I use. He aslo wants a TIG to do a full chassis rock crawler later.

I'd like to get a unit that could do MIG and TIG. What polarity would one use for welding a tube frame?

If you get a tig, you won't need a mig, it does not work always the other way though.

I have never heard of a tig/mig combo, but most tigs come with an old school stick arc welder setup (I have used mine for some heavy welds on some various stuff around the house).


Steel and stainless steel is welded on the "DC electrode negative" setting.
Aluminum welding requires the "AC" settings.

Well, I did TIG for the first time last night.

I find it rather relaxing. It's kind of like oxyfuel, but I have more precise control of the weld.

And our machines at the school to MIG, TIG, stick, and a few other forms or welding that I do not recognize. The full setup is also something like $10,000.

Sunday night we had the family over for dinner and decided to eat outside. as i haven't purchased an umbrella stand yet i thought i'd make one.

10 minutes with a grinder and my Miller 140 and i had exactly what i needed! Our table just sits in the back yard (no deck yet) so I used a tube with 3 spikes welded on to it. it can be hammered into our very hard ground and keeps the base of the umbrella steady in the table. And welding on 1/8" stock like that is so very easy and satisfying!

I spent Sunday cutting out rusty spots on my samurai, and cutting panels to have welded in. I thought that would save some $$ when I drop it off to have it welded up. It needs rockers, and some patches in the cargo area & around the shifter.

Even though all he has to do is tack the panels in, the guy quoted me $500.

I'm going to take that $$ and buy a mig welder instead. I want one that runs off 110v, as I want to be able to take it up to the cottage, to friends' houses, etc.

I'm thinking about this one:
Lincoln MIG-Pak 140
http://images.canadiantire.ca/media/...0_CC_67e35.jpg
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444329 9189&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672983&bmUID= 1192018112647

I think I can get it for $499... it was just on sale at that price a couple weeks ago.

Chris, is this the kind of welder you're looking at?

what say you, PPOT?

is it ready for gas? be sure to add a tank of C25 into your budget. Lincoln certainly has a good reputation.

This is more what I was thinking: ;)

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=5382

Yep, comes with hoses & regulator. I'd probably start out using flux core

Holy shnizzle! You must have quite a project on the horizon... you've mentioned tube frames a couple times. I'm just looking for bodywork & general hobby stuff, but I want 110V & gas ready

That's the exact unit I have at school right now. I've used it for stick, MIG, and TIG. Unfortunately, I'd also have to get a tank, regulator, MIG torch, TIG torch, electrodes, a wire feeder, and a foot peddle to round out the rig.

This is more realistically what I will get:

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=55733

BTW, your link just takes you to the Canadian Tire home page, what model are you looking at?

Yeah, Canadian tire insists on having a postal code. You can try mine: e2e 1y3. They call it the "Lincoln Electric MIG-Pak® 140 Wire Feed Welder"

Apparently it's a dicontinued model.
It was also sold at Lowes as the "lincoln pro mig 140" model # k2480-1
Here's one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/lincoln-pro-mig-140-brand-new-in-box-k2480-1_W0QQitemZ260168503890QQihZ016QQcategoryZ113743QQ cmdZViewItem
Listed at $365 US. (Man, we get hosed up here. Locally they want 599 retail, on sale it's 499)

The other option is a Lincoln 140c:
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=42420

I can pick one up locally for 735, with a bottle of gas