Nope, but the fact that this practice exists in multiple places speaks to its effectiveness in allowing our species to survive. And like I said, this was in Mexico in the 1970's, not Africa in the 1990's.

No, no, no, no, no! You're confusing "conservative" with "Republican". They are in no way the same. Just as the Democrats do not fit the "liberal" mold. The Reps are the big business party, the Dems are the welfare party. Both push for more government power, both are whores to whomever will give them the most money. Claiming to be a conservative or liberal in this day and age is nothing but a political play, at least if you reside in Washington.

Like when the oxygen mask drops from the ceiling of rhe plane. Put your mask on first, because if you pass out, there's no way you're gonna be able to put the mask on your child, or girlfriend, or whatever.

Nostatic,
I should have been more clear. Liberalism= socialism in economic policy, and unfettered individualism in social policy.
Also, Classic liberalism and Conservatism are closley alligned. New liberalism as of (19th cent+) is not, which is what I see most of today and what I'm trying to get a grasp on.

I see almost no classic liberalism in todays society. (I think someone hijacked that philosophy and morphed it)

this is a bull***** story. everyone knows men in Mexico don't work, they're either loafing or trying to cross the US border.

have any left over?

Good story, but I don't agree. The retiree's and near retiree's are being fed first... It was all fine for the WWII generation and those that are left, but we can't afford the programs now and what is going to happen when the boomers want to retire at 62?

See today's news - the average American lifespan has increased again. Are we indexing social security, medicare and defined public pensions? That would be a NO.


"U.S. life expectancy inched up to 77.9 from the previous record, 77.8, recorded for 2004. The increase was more dramatic in contrast with 1995, when life expectancy was 75.8, and 1955, when it was 69.6."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070912/ap_on_he_me/life_expectancy;_ylt=AshoWCTq2DTsKc.HBsKyJpVI2ocA

Nostatic,

If what you preaching is "liberalism" in the true sense of philosophy, the contemporary democratic party are communists, anarchists and fascists. There acts are the antithesis of all you prophesize. IMHO.

Actually, I have no idea what Pelosi and her lefties believe in other than raising taxes and bigger government.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way!

Bob

1) Not sure I would agree Thom. Most of the Conservative business people I'm envolved with are very large Contributiors to Charitys. I myslef am a big supporter of the Make a wish foundation, My church, and the local Sacramento Food Bank.

2) Yes, and a president that "didn't have sex with that woman" We all have our faults. I'm not suggesting either side is perfect

3) agree with you on subsidies. why pay someone not to grow food. (Obvioulsy this requires more research into the Economic implications than we've given discussion to in this 30sec thread.)

QUOTE: "The retiree's and near retiree's are being fed first."
____________________

I retired early (at age 52). I made up my mind when growing up to provide for my own financial future and now have a 72T (personal retirement fund) that provides for that.

But like EVERYONE ELSE, the government, for my entire working life, forced me to pay into a fund (Social Security) that is now apparently full of only I.O.U.s ... as the bastards from BOTH parties have sucked it dry to fund other projects over the years. But that is still MY- YOUR- OUR money! If the SOB's thought the populace soooo ignorant that they had to be our 'sugar daddy' in old age then by GOD they better well FIND a way to fund it after robbing all of us all these years!

If the entire system collapses (it won't) I'll be fine, but there are many citizens that may not be.

The Social Security system was FORCED on us and I get really tired of anyone acting like it's some form of welfare!

no, the current democratic party is made up of egotistical idiots. Just like the republican party...

I'm shocked by all of the pigeon-hole stereotyping going on about conservatives and liberals. The fact is, very few people actually fall in within "either or." Also, most believe what they believe not because of some personal choice or life altering experiences, but because that's what they were taught.

Liberal or Conservative... both sheep of policy, family policy, political policy, regional policy, religious policy.

Both ignore the only true way of enlightenment... REASON. LOGIC. TRUTH.

I just wish people would be able to think for themselves without aligning with BS idealism (on either side of the proverbial fence).

Bill Hicks
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How to win friends and influence people.SmileWavy

I'd say there's a little difference in the way conservatives and liberals perceive people in general:

Conservatives generally believe that men are inherently evil. They will take advantage of others for self preservation, and there will always be crime. 'nature' more than 'nurture'

Liberals tend to think that men are generally good, and that they only do bad things when social circumstances give them (what they think is) no other choice. 'nurture' more than 'nature'

no, the current democratic party is made up of egotistical idiots. Just like the republican party...

Yep! The problem is...What are we going to do that is in the best interest of our country and sovereignty? I really think its time for big changes...And NOT "progressive" socialism...


#1 Close the borders and create a incentive program to get illegals to go home.
#2 everything else will work itself out.

this plan is liberalism made flesh. Incentive program? WTF? How about we round them up, deport them, bill the Mexican government for all associated costs on a fee+ basis and crack down hard on US companies hiring and harboring them.

or maybe we can give them something nice, Made in China, that will remind them of Mexico and they'll just feel the homeland heartstrings tugging them so hard they'll just have to hop on the first bus going over the border.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So I think we can agree that anyone who does not agree with me is a worthless POS...

Would you agree, or are you too full of it to know how wrong you are ?

Discuss.

Why don't you open a dictionary and look it up?

Maybe I will get flamed for cutting and pasting my answer.
But it sure seems that neither party is getting it completely right.
Please dont start bringing in the constitution into this argument. Because we all should know the Founding Fathers WERE a bunch of LIBERALS.:D



Main Entry: lib·er·al·ism
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&-"li-z&m
1 : the quality or state of being liberal
2 a often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity
b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard
c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties d capitalized : the principles and policies of a Liberal party
- lib·er·al·ist/-b(&-)r&-list/ noun or adjective
- lib·er·al·is·tic/"li-b(&-)r&-'lis-tik/ adjective


Main Entry: con·ser·va·tism
Function: noun
Pronunciation: k&n-'s&r-v&-"ti-z&m
1 capitalized a : the principles and policies of a Conservative party b : the Conservative party
2 a : disposition in politics to preserve what is established
b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change
3 : the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change






Main Entry: lib·er·al
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&l
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English leodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free
1 a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts <liberal education>
b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2 a : marked by generosity : OPENHANDED <a liberal giver>
b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way <a liberal meal>
c : AMPLE , FULL
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS
4 : not literal or strict : LOOSE <a liberal translation>
5 : BROAD -minded ; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6 a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism ; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
- lib·er·al·ly/-b(&-)r&-le/ adverb
- lib·er·al·ness noun
synonyms LIBERAL , GENEROUS , BOUNTIFUL , MUNIFICENT mean giving or given freely and unstintingly. LIBERAL suggests openhandedness in the giver and largeness in the thing or amount given <a teacher liberal with her praise>. GENEROUS stresses warmhearted readiness to give more than size or importance of the gift <a generous offer of help>. BOUNTIFUL suggests lavish, unremitting giving or providing <children spoiled by bountiful presents>. MUNIFICENT suggests a scale of giving appropriate to lords or princes <a munificent foundation grant>.

Main Entry: liberal
Function: noun
: a person who is liberal:
as a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways
b capitalized : a member or supporter of a liberal political party
c : an advocate or adherent of liberalism especially in individual rights





Main Entry: con·ser·va·tive
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: k&n-'s&r-v&-tiv
1 : PRESERVATIVE
2 a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism:
as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions
(2) : PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE
3 a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL
b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate>
c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners <a conservative suit>
4 : of or relating to Conservative Judaism
- con·ser·va·tive·ly adverb
- con·ser·va·tive·ness noun

Main Entry: conservative
Function: noun
1 a : an adherent or advocate of political conservatism
b capitalized : a member or supporter of a conservative political party
2 a : one who adheres to traditional methods or views
b : a cautious or discreet person

Yes we have no bananas...but plenty of egotistical bananas. I'm in DC this week and the parade of dolts is the stuff of dreams.

Liberalism is intellect infected by emotion.

SmileWavy

Shaun,

Buddy...I'm the lib?...You guys are pretty funny...don't coin me as a sympathizer to the liberal agenda. I would evoke a law that would mandate there egress within 30 days to get the fork out... period or go to jail including anyone who has overstayed visas. But, I was forced to improvise because I know that no politician has the balls to do it. I was being politically pragmatic.

Hillary will amnestatize them and honor their vote via our noble democracy we embrace changing our countries political landscape endorsing everything for free at the expense of the producers. Have 12 babies with no means of support an bill the government.. This will create a perfect and functional system like the one enjoyed in California presently. Metastasizing cancer! Just a matter of time!