Tell me about Liberalism

[tc-sacto]

After reading on of the other threads, I got to thinking what do liberals really think? So here is the world as I view it and your chance to voice your argument in an effort to change my thinking. Hopefully we can keep the debate civil.(good luck)

Conservatives believe in accepting personal responsibility for ones actions and decisions. They do not believe that taxation for the purpose of income redistribution is in the best interests of either those being taxed or those who benefit from the taxation/ Those being taxed are forced by government to support those who are non producers. Those receiving the benefits will never know the trials, tribulations, and joys of being self supporting through their own labor

Conservatives believe that as a humane society we have a responsibility to help those who cannot through mental or physical limitations help themselves. They also believe that they should give a helping hand to those who need some help due to just plain bad luck or natuaral disasters. But help means help..not a gift nor should it be a permanent entitlement program.

Conservatives believe family, for all its imperfections, is usually the most stable source of support for individuals. It is also due to the strong instinct most people eventually feel to find a life partner and to have children. Conservatives are supportive of family life. In particular, conservatives believe in the ideal of a stable family life, in which the different qualities of men and women are made complementary to each other.


Liberals take a different view of the family. Firstly, liberals find it more difficult to accept stable family commitments, since for liberals the idea of individual autonomy, of being independent and "free to choose" is paramount. Liberals, therefore, have acted to "loosen up" family commitments, by redefining the family so that it describes any arrangement of people living together,

Liberals beleive in a welfare state of entitlements. Individual Rights — Based on Entitlement, subordinated to No-one, obligated to no-one, and everyone is a victim of circumstances.

Relative Truth and Subjective Reality (If it feels good, it must be okay to do it)


In my eyes:
In its truest sense, conservatism focuses on personal and fiscal
responsibility, Strenght of family, Strong but small government.

Liberalism focuses on socialism, unfettered individualism, and Politcal correctiness. It seems to me that at a very fundamental level, liberalism is the destroyer of the common good, because it promises entitlements to individuals and thereby makes those entitlements a burden for all others.

[Burnin' oil]

Here's the world as I view it: Leave me the hell alone. I don't know if that's liberal or conservative.

[ckissick]

In general, you summed it up pretty well. Of course, there are exceptions. The Republican politicians have been having a hard time lately living up to the family value thing. And Bush has a real hard time with that small government thing. Hence the bottom-of-the-barrel approval ratings.

I only wish that some liberal politicians would stray from the core liberal ideals.

Two other things: First, liberals seem far more likely to have bumper stickers and to go to loud rallies that disrupt traffic. Why is that? Second, liberals seem less logical, espousing idealistic solutions to the world's ills that would cause more harm than good.

[GO DAWG GO]

Charly

Although, I do agree with the original analysis...

Please do not confuse Republicans as conservatives. I dont believe they are related anymore. No real conservative would have handled big government, the border and budget the way Dubya and his so called conservative congress has. Thats why their approval rating is at a all time high...

[tc-sacto]

Agreed,
I see nothing conservative about the current administration. They're off in their own world.

[Rick Lee]

I am way, way more conservative than the gang that calls themselves Republicans in Washington. I'm more of a libertarian, actually. Ron Paul is a hero.

[ckissick]

I agree with y'all about the "conservative" Bush administration. I pretty much said as much in my post. It's funny, no matter how liberal the Bush policies may be, he gains not one iota of appreciation from the left.

[ckissick]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I am way, way more conservative than the gang that calls themselves Republicans in Washington. I'm more of a libertarian, actually. Ron Paul is a hero.

I like what I read from Ron Paul, but he came of as just an odd-ball in that last debate.

[the]

Originally Posted by Burnin' oil

Here's the world as I view it: Leave me the hell alone. I don't know if that's liberal or conservative.

If you also accept the flip side of that - i.e., that YOU leave others the hell alone, then you are not a liberal. At least not an economic liberal.

Economic liberalism = "It takes a village," "we're all in this together," etc. People have claims to you and your work, and you have claims to theirs, based on nothing more than "need."

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by tc-sacto

Liberalism focuses on socialism, unfettered individualism,

Your view of liberalism is pretty skewed through your conservative lense.

Please tell me how socialism and unfettered individualism are at all compatible.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

It would be great if everyone were a conservative and all of the liberals were dead.

[nostatic]

If you really want to know (and not just run down "liberals") this is a good start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.[1] Liberalism has its roots in the Western Age of Enlightenment.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government.[2] All liberals – as well as some adherents of other political ideologies – support the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.[3]

Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion. Social progressivism, the belief that traditions do not carry any inherent value and social practices ought to be continuously adjusted for the greater benefit of humanity, is a common component of liberal ideology. Liberalism is also strongly associated with the belief that human society should be organized in accordance with certain unchangeable and inviolable rights. Different schools of liberalism are based on different conceptions of human rights, but there are some rights that all liberals support, including rights to life, liberty, and property.

Within liberalism, there are two major currents of thought that often compete over the use of the term "liberal" and have been known to clash on many issues. Classical liberals emphasize free private enterprise, individual property rights, laissez-faire economic policy, and freedom of contract, and oppose the welfare state. Classical liberals support equality before the law, but hold that economic inequality, arising from competition in the free market, does not justify wealth redistribution by governments. [4] Social liberals advocate a greater degree of government influence to protect individual rights (in a broad sense), often in the form of anti-discrimination laws. Social liberals support universal education, and many also support the provision of welfare, including benefits for the unemployed, housing for the homeless, and medical care for the sick, all supported by progressive taxation.

[the]

If the Democratic party is the "liberal" party, and the leaders (Pelosi, Reid, Hillary, etc.) of the Dem party are in any way representative of the Dem party as a whole, that Wikipedia definition of "liberal" is laughable.

[frogger]

The Dems are the pro-choice pro-corporation pro-illegal immigration party. The Repubs are their pro-life counterparts.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

What's the best way to kill all of the liberals?

[legion]

A good friend (actually, more of a mentor) went on a trip from Texas to the tip of South America and back after college (30 years ago). He had no real plan of how to accomplish this. He took very little money and a book bag full of necessities. He left the U.S. a hardcore liberal. He arrived back two years later a hardcore conservative.

The defining moment for him was early on his trip in southern Mexico. He had already figured out that begging got him no where. Instead he learned to offer a day's labor for a day's food--whatever the village needed done. He wold try to set aside some food from each meal. After a few days in one place, he would walk on to the next town and repeat the process.

Anyway, he entered one village that was barely subsisting. He did his day of labor and sat down to a meal at the end of the day. The custom in this village was for the men to eat first--however much they wanted. Then the women ate. Then the children. At first he thought this was cruel. This village was on the verge of starvation and the children would often go hungry while the adults ate.

Then he "got" it. If the men were to starve, the people who provided most of the food would be gone. They would not have the energy to provide food for the women and children. The women prepared most of the food, and so were also important to the process. The children provided nothing. eeding the children first would be a death sentence for the whole village, but feeding the men first would at least ensure that someone would survive a lean season.

If you extrapolate this example to current social policy in the U.S., the children (those who produce nothing) are being fed first. The men (the producers) are being left the children's scraps. Let's see how long our village survives.

[legion]

Originally Posted by frogger

The Dems are the pro-choice pro-corporation pro-illegal immigration party. The Repubs are their pro-life counterparts.

That's a good definition!

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by tc-sacto

Conservatives believe that as a humane society we have a responsibility to help those who cannot through mental or physical limitations help themselves. They also believe that they should give a helping hand to those who need some help due to just plain bad luck or natuaral disasters.

Who are you trying to kid? While conservatives deny evolution, they're staunch believers in social darwinism.

Conservatives are supportive of family life. In particular, conservatives believe in the ideal of a stable family life, in which the different qualities of men and women are made complementary to each other.

Is that why we have all of the anti-gay conservatives getting caught sucking c*ck in public restrooms?

Liberals beleive in a welfare state of entitlements.

I'd like to see a conservative suggest an end to the various corporate entitlement programs (aka subsidies); an easy one would be ADM. I'd be willing the pony up the $39.95 to watch him get his ass eaten alive on pay-per-view.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by legion

A good friend (actually, more of a mentor) went on a trip from Texas to the tip of South America and back after college (30 years ago). He had no real plan of how to accomplish this. He took very little money and a book bag full of necessities. He left the U.S. a hardcore liberal. He arrived back two years later a hardcore conservative.

Is your friend named "AP"?

APn 09/27 1206 Horn-Relief Workers

Copyright, 1992. The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
DAGAHALEY CAMP, Kenya (AP) -- Habiba Ali, 20, lovingly holds her son
Mohamed as a doctor with a large syringe feeds him
through a nasal tube. The 2-year-old is little larger than a
newborn.
Like so many others in this eastern Kenya camp for Somali
refugees, Mohamed may have arrived at the feeding center too late.
Scores of tiny mounds in a graveyard 300 yards away attest to his
probable fate.
"We have social workers who go tent to tent, finding kids
whose mothers wouldn't bring them in for one reason or another,"
said Eddie Kangara, a Kenyan official with CARE International who
supervises the camp. "It's often too late."
Elodie Martel, a Montreal native who is in charge of social
services for CARE's camps in Kenya, said many of the Somali women,
traumatized by the anarchy they left behind to seek safety, are
desperately afraid of authority figures, even doctors.
But she also spoke of the ultimate desperation of some
parents.
"She will come and say, `My child died.' But really, the
mother or father has pushed with one hand over the child's eyes, and
put the other over the mouth," Miss Martel said. "I've talked to
doctors who have seen it done. They say the baby doesn't fight at
all.
"Apparently they figure why give medicine to my child --
she's hopeless -- when others can be saved."
No matter how professional the charity worker, the pressure
of seeing dead children every day is telling.
Riding on the back of a pickup truck into Liboi camp just
east of Dagahaley, regional camp coordinator Gail Neudorf of
Vancouver, B.C., pointed to a group of men standing and talking.
"Look at those men. Do you see anybody malnourished? No," she
said.
"That's because the men eat first, the women eat next, then the
children eat -- if there's anything left after the animals eat.
That's what really hurts: The animals eat before the children.
"It makes sense for survival in the nomadic culture. But not now."
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[tabs]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

What's the best way to kill all of the liberals?

Zyclon B...