GM lost $39 Billion--Wow

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Not saying they haven't been successful, but unless they can adapt to what will unquestionably be a change in demand based on the skyrocketing prices of petroleum, they're going to get killed.

The build quality is a lot better than it used to be - almost across the board. I see this in pretty much all the products from Saturn to Cadillac.

Pickups (for commercial use) will probably continue to have okay sales in the next 3-5 years I'm guessing. I really think the sales for full-sized SUVs are going to go into the toilet.

Lots of parallels between now and the 70s - fuel costs going through the roof, considerable inflationary pressure and (soon to be) a bleeding-heart administration in office. Could get a bit rocky. I really think as people get squeezed, the thought of paying a couple of hundred bucks a fill-up isn't going to be terribly appetizing.

[Zef]

Originally Posted by strupgolf

I have to say that my wife's car is a 2001 GM Pontiac Gran Prix, probably one of the best cars we've owned. No problems, no issues. I've had it since 2003. I dont know about their newer cars, but I would buy another one.

Lucky guy...Got two GM products (1997 Sunfire and 2002 Montana)...both got their engines opened before 50000 km...had to sell them before the warranty expire...The Montana was at the dealer every month for repair...They were the first GM products I got...And the last too...! And my Honda winter beater still go after 15 years with no more than oil/brakes/tires...!

[on-ramp]

GM is a POS american company. The only people who will be hurt from this are the middle class workers.

[t951]

So, I gave GM a try. I bought a 2007 Corvette. The flagship of Chevrolet, and theoretically the best car they make. Well, the car has 5800 miles. I started it today and got covered in smoke. Like the batmobile smoke screen. I am insane about proper break in, and maintenance. (Granted it hasn't had its first oil change yet).

This car will be going into the shop this week. I am guessing bad rings, or something. My dad had a Chevy in 1981 that was a lemon. Well, he swore off GM since 1981. I am certain that this will be my last GM. Every Honda we have ever had has been bulletproof, no issues ever.

I bought an accord a few years ago with 89k miles drove it to 150k with nary an issue. Didn't burn a drop, ran like a top. This Vette has sounded rough for the last couple of days, and now this.

An interior by rubbermaid, crap engine....I am done.

This is why GM is failing. Bad management, unions, finance....all of those ills aren't going to kill the company. It will be low quality products. If they built good stuff it would mean that they could endure the mgmt, unions, etc. Good products would fix a lot. But bad products mixed with those....

t.

[Komenda Fan]

Kinda says it all I guess when "The Truth About Cars" website asks their readers for the ten worst automobiles of 2007 and 6 out of the ten are from GM.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=6163

I do think design and build quality are improving at GM, but at the same time, I still think they are miles behind and I really can't understand parting with hard earned cash for one, no matter how much in incentives GM offers.

[strupgolf]

The thing I see everytime I drive by a GM lot is how all the cars look the same. Chevy, Cadilac, pontiiac. I dont see myself walking around the lot looking for something different like I did years ago. Its sad to see this, so next time it's going to be what I like, not what I see.

[red-beard]

WSJ is actually bullish on GM, with the new deal with the unions.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Jeff, large trucks and SUVs are still very profitable. Thus far, gas hasn't become expensive enough to deter Americans from their 4x4 land yachts. 3 of the top 5 best selling vehicles in the USA for 2006 were full size trucks, with the Silverado at #2.

I think the issue at GM in the past was investing so much into their trucks and SUVs to the neglect of their cars. That seems to be changing, as now all of their products are getting better. They don't have many class leading products, but the difference from 2 years ago is dramatic.

My wife's Cadillac SRX is in for a few oddball warranty things, and I'm driving the 2006 Pontiac G6 loaner car. Interior quality and fit/finish is actually very good, I'd say it's comparable to my in-law's Mazda 3 (very good). Exterior fit/finish is also very nice, with good tight panel gaps, and what appears to be a high quality paint job. Styling is somewhat blah, but sufficient for commuter duties. Driving experience is pretty blah, with lifeless steering that doesn't seem connected to anything. Suprisingly, the brakes are firm and responsive, very good. The V6 is decent, nothing special, but not rough, and sufficiently powerful. Like I said, not class leading, but competitive, and one hell of an improvement over the Pontiac Grand Am it replaced.

In regards to the SRX in question, we couldn't be happier. 320HP V8 really moves it and makes amazing noises. Great steering and brakes. Basically, it's a taller, AWD version of my old BMW 540. Absolutely awesome highway car. Good material quality, excellent leather, nice styling. Overall, one of the best crossover SUVs money can buy.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Lots of parallels between now and the 70s - fuel costs going through the roof, considerable inflationary pressure and (soon to be) a bleeding-heart administration in office. Could get a bit rocky. I really think as people get squeezed, the thought of paying a couple of hundred bucks a fill-up isn't going to be terribly appetizing.

I forgot to mention crappy music and terrible fashion trends.

Anyway, I agree that in the short-term pickups and SUVs will probably continue to have decent sales, but GM is VERY stupid if they don't see the writing on the wall. Ford has the Escape Hybrid coming out this year. What does GM have? Oh yea, more of the same old gas-guzzling crap. Mercedes has BlueTec coming out. What does GM have? Oh yea - more of the same old gas-guzzling crap. Audi and VW have similar high-efficiency diesels out, what does GM have? You guessed it. The Japanese are moving into second and even THIRD generation hybrid technology while GM continues to think they can subsist indefinitely on gas guzzlers. They're setting themselves up to get whalloped - same way they did in the 1970s.

Very short-sighted business model.

[lendaddy]

The hybrid Escape (and those like it) are eyewash for folks that think like you, they are not money making ventures.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

We'll see how much "eyewash" they are when gasoline hits $8 or $9 a gallon. . .

[john70t]

Meanwhile, fuel efficiency is declining(even with hybrids) while gas prices rise, and the hp of commuter vehicle increases in an atmosphere of dense traffic congestion.

Bass akward consumers, bass akward manufacturers.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by john70t

Meanwhile, fuel efficiency is declining(even with hybrids) while gas prices rise, and the hp of commuter vehicle increases in an atmosphere of dense traffic congestion.

Bass akward consumers, bass akward manufacturers.

The market drives the product, when the pain threshold is crossed the market will react. You cannot and should not try to force demand.....it just doesn't work.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by john70t

Meanwhile, fuel efficiency is declining(even with hybrids) while gas prices rise, and the hp of commuter vehicle increases in an atmosphere of dense traffic congestion.

Bass akward consumers, bass akward manufacturers.

Agreed. I find it hilarous that people seem to demand huger and huger-displacement engines and lower and lower-efficiency vehicles just to sit in traffic on the waste of tax dollars called the "405 freeway" for three hours a day.

I suppose somewhere in there is justification for all those cell phones and DVD players in peoples' vehicles - since you're spending more time in traffic than in your living room at home, you might as well have the same amenities on-hand, right? Oh, but people still feel the need to hold onto those 650 sq. ft. bungalows on 25'x150' lots built in 1940 with asbestos that they "got a bargain on" two years ago for "only" $600,000. . . But they never get to enjoy the fruits of their wise purchase since they're sitting in traffic all day! LOL! The silliness of people is hysterical sometimes!

Stupid knows no boundaries. The current trends in automobiles are proof positive.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I forgot to mention crappy music and terrible fashion trends.

Ford has the Escape Hybrid coming out this year.

Time warp? We've had Escape Hybrids here in Colorado for over 3 years.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by tcar

Time warp? We've had Escape Hybrids here in Colorado for over 3 years.

And no one even notices which is my point.

[frogger]

It's kind of funny that hybrid SUVs are the focus of American car manufacturers. If consumers wanted to reduce their personal fuel consumption, they should be considering a movement towards smaller, lighter vehicles with hybrid technology. That they are still demanding SUVs tells me that their committment is half-hearted.

http://www.hybridcenter.org/hybrid-timeline.html

[Jim Bremner]

I own a 2006 corvette

break in ? ran the snot out of it the first day. It has 35,000 miles on it since 6/13/06

two track days. (more this weekend) other than the t-top needing to be replaced - some of the roofs delaminated...mine did as well

that's been the only issue.

My chevy siverado bought on 02/02/02 has 149,000 miles on it

the truck has a 98 mile phr governed top speed, found it out the first day of ownership.

I'm a salesrep, this truck has been driven like a taxi cab, I've towed around 20,000 miles. Up and over the grapevine to button willow at least 6 times.

from L A to Vegas 8 times.

dirt roads,hauling MX bikes etc

@57,000 miles I broke the transmission, after racing a freind up the grapevine towing trailers I won against his ford deisel...and my trailer was bigger ( heated the diff up so hot that it burnt the paint off of the cover - changed the oil, diff still works)

@100,000 miles I had the 30k 60k and 90k service done (I didn't service the truck other than motor oil @ 3k intervals and the diff @ 30k

other than the tranny, the parking brake release cable broke around 125k
and the only recall that it's been subject to was for the cables that support the tailgate ( the cables came fro china)

oh and the trucks pads and rotors are still the factory units!

[dd74]

The Ford Escape has been out for at least three years, and I can only count about a handful that I've seen here. Priuses are plentiful, but I've yet to hear about a lot of people driving them anywhere outside of L.A.

In fact, if you own a Prius in this town, there's a good chance you're also walking the picket lines outside a Hollywood Studio.

Hence: a trend for a few trendy folks in the overall population.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Hybrids about half substance, half image. Hollywood picked up on the Prius as a way to make a statement, the rest of America followed suit. Sure, they are efficient, but there are more promising technologies. Hell, a simple diesel can get very near to hybrid MPG. But, that's what the public wants, that's what the public gets.

Jeff, you're wrong about GM hybrids. A quick Google search reveals that GM offers a hybrid Saturn Vue, Aura, Yukon, and Tahoe. They have also produced more than 700 diesel/electric hybrid city busses. Coming soon are hybrid Silverado and Sierra trucks, they've been in fleet use for several years.

I can't really say I care. I'm excited for small displacement turbo-diesel full size trucks, which should be here within a few years. Simple, proven technology, plenty of power, and great MPG.