What is the best way to develop a new product?
 

I was impressed by the guy who developed the cup holder for 911's that bolts to the base of the passenger seat. Very elegant design IMO. I've often fantasized about developing a clever gadget and then marketing it. But what is the best way to accomplish that? I saw a website mentioned here called emachineshop.com which seems to do prototyping and small scale production. Is that the best way or are there other ways?

Wow, there's alot to cover. Emachine shop will take the specs you provide and translate into a machined piece. My experience has been best when working with someone locally and providing very frequent feedback to develop the prototype properly.

Will you need to source other components for this idea?

Things to keep in mind when maturing the design are :

-Can this be manufactured efficiently?
-Replicated cost effectively?
-Can I utilize alternate materials if needed?
-How many steps will be required to assemble?
-How will this product ship? (weight and/or size an issue?)
-Can it be copied too easily? (Brand identity very important)
-Any obvious liability/safety concerns?
-Are you designing to last forever? Does it need to be?
-Turn around time for each component?
-Can this be manufactured and shipped from overseas reliably?

A good design is a simple design....<b>K</b>eep <b>i</b>t <b>s</b>imple <b>s</b>tupid.

Then you have a multitude of legal protection concerns such as Copyright, Trademark, Patent(s), Liability insurance, etc.

Marketing can be a bit easier these days with the internet but you'll need a plan to determine timing, saturation, ordering frequency/volume, target audience and intelligence gathering (JD Powers/Polk etc), budget etc.

I love and have done the full cycle a few times and am passionate about it. Each step is quite interesting.

I do all of my prototyping with an angle grinder, a Dremel, and a drill press. :D

Serious answer: It depends on what you want to make and who you plan on selling it to.

If you are handy enough to make your own prototypes even cardboard cutouts or rough carvings to help sort out any design flaws that can help. Remember that other people will not or can not share your vision. A lot of people didn't liked my cup holder but I have sold over a thousand so far. Everything that RickM said .
JMPRO

Thanks for the info. I must confess I would not attempt anything elaborate. I was thinking along the lines of working on a sexy design for aluminum pedals or maybe a nice set of drilled floorboards. The examples I see out there don't strike my fancy and so I figured it might be worth trying to make my own (and then sell them if others like my design). So maybe I can add another "S" to the KISS phrase - Keep It Super Simple Stupid :)

So maybe emachineshop.com would be a good idea? Are the other (or better) companies that do similar things?

JMPRO - Which cup holder design did you create?

JMPRO - Which cup holder design did you create?[/QUOTE]

I do the one that plugs into the lighter socket.
There is a lot of competition in the parts you suggested and It would be hard to get that stuff placed with the big retailers which is the only way you can sell enough to make it worth while. All of my products except for one are unique parts that no one else made so I had no competition.
JMPRO

I would start with sourcing the base material to get an idea of availabilty and cost. Then brainstorm and experiment with different ways to execute your design.
Some questions to ponder:
Will it be CNC machined from billet? Can it be cast from aluminum as an alternative? How about stamped and a pattern drilled? :D The fun is in playing around with YOUR ideas and see what you create.
At minimum you'll end up with some unique stuff.

Janus, why don't you just buy my business and then you will have a head start on any thing else you want to make.
JMPRO

I have that one in my 911. I bought it from Pelican. At first I thought it could not hold the weight of my coffee - but it turns out it works great. Unfortunately, the cig lighter in my 944 is not in a location that allows me to use your cup holder. It is too far to the right for the reclining position one uses in a 944 (hard to explain). So I started looking at the one that attaches to the seat.

May I ask how you developed that product? Was it a super DIY approach with hand bent wire and a broken cig lighter or did you use something like a CAD system? And may I ask if you make them yourself or if you have someone else manufacture them?

HA! I've never sold anything in my life! I'd run your business into the ground (Dammit Jim, I'm a programmer, not a marketing genius). IF I ever manage to make myself a nice set of pedals (or whatever) and IF anyone else ever likes them enough to pay money for them, I assure you it will require a minor miracle. :D

emachineshop.com is pretty pricey. I wanted a part made, and had a cool design worked up in emachineshop.com. It was pretty pricey. I asked some of the guys on the board here if it would be much cheaper to have it done someplace else. Yes, it would have been, but it also still would have been pretty expensive. I think I'd try to work up some stuff on my own before I'd go with an expensive option.

I think you're going to be fighting a losing battle if you want to do floorboards and/or pedals because there are so many options already out there that are mass produced, not to mention there are plenty of people that tinker and make their own stuff.

When I first made the cup holder I just got some 1/4" rod and fabbed a few to test. I have a small welder and basic welding skills. The rubber part that goes into the socket has to be custom made by a rubber co. and the frame is custom made for me and then I do all the assembly and packaging. Lucky for me I sell enough of them because I have to order 300 frames at a time and about a thousand rubber parts at a time to get the price down to where it is semi-reasonabe. There are a lot of costs associated with tooling and programing to set up to make a new gadget that can only be recouped by making and selling lots of them.
JMPRO

Depending on how complex your product might be, you might want to consider engaging the services of a small contract engineering firm to bring your idea to life. They can help with cost-effective design approaches, documentation, material selection, prototyping, low-volume manufacturing, assembly (if necessary), safety issues and even marketing & patent application.

One of the things I learned from my own brief stint as an entrepreneur is that the idea is the easiest part.
-Chris

I kinda gave up on inventing stuff (well physical output anyway) .... I still have them in my mind.

Do you want to know why I kida gave up? It is my understanding that copyright laws are so hard to implement. One guy invented a 'chop stick on one end and fork on the other end' to cater to Americans. It was supposed to be a big hit.

However, a big manufacturer literrally marketed the same exact thing. As this was a clear violation of his copyright, he attempted to hire a lawyer. I believe the lawyers said, "Well, we require $250K (or something like that) before we even lift a finger." Not sure what the ultimate outcome of this.

There were others like this one! Go search the web...


I do not mean to bring bad news; actually, I am happy to read that perseverance and ingenuity is still around; thus, I responded to this thread.

Good luck.

Here's how I did it:

1. Work in CNC machine shop for a number of years as machinist, designer, programmer, set up guy, etc.
2. Progress to position of production manager, where one of the duties is production scheduling.
3. Buy Porsche.
4. Figure out which parts could be improved upon, and develop reasonable alternatives/improvements.
5. "Schedule" production at shop so a machine will be open all weekend. :D
6. Prototype said parts, test, refine, test again, and so on.
7. Produce parts.

Finally:

8. Keep day job. ;)

Seriously, there is some money to be made in the Porsche world designing and selling aftermarket parts, but it is indeed a fairly small market. Your best bet would be to find a niche that has not yet been saturated and go from there. I have recently bought a milling machine for personal use, and hope to have a lathe and CNC machining center by mid year. I don't plan on making a great living selling Porsche parts with this stuff, but the machinery will allow me to manufacture parts for outside customers while still keeping my Porsche habit fed.

Good luck,
Jim

Sometimes you don't need a patent or copyrights. Just come out with the best, cheapest, most adorable wigit and pound it to the walls with promotion and develope your distributors to trust you. when the copycats start up they will have a hard time breaking thru and even if they do, you just move on to your next wigit.
JMPRO

Why doesn't anyone make/fabricate the interior panels that go on the sides of the floor panels in the front seat and especially the ones that cover the convertible top lifting mechanism on both sides in the back seat?

We did a carpet project not too long ago in an '86 cab and those rear panels were a real bich!!

Ended up basically redoing both of them because of severe distortion and cracks. Stapled and glued an entire new center section to the remains of the curved outer portion. And then a whole bunch of grinding and filing.

But if someone had the forms and the means to fabricate them it would not be that difficult. Of course, as someone mentioned, there might not be enough of a market to make it viable. But I sure as hell would have bought them!

Get Billy Mays to hawk it for you.

Or some dude with a British accent. :rolleyes:

omgggggg!!!!!!!! then I am set - I have the accent and I work making prototypes for a living, now if only I can think of an idea!!! Thats the hard part :D


Matt

That guy makes me want to put a hammer through my TV.

The shouting, the weirdly black hair and beard that covers most of his head, < shivers >. Yep, just don't like that guy.

I'll resurrect this old, dead thread on the off chance there are any other entrepreneurs out there who'd like to chime in.

Specifically, let's talk manufacturing of product. Let's say I've got a widget that I'd like machined. What's the best way to prototype, then mass produce stuff? Let's say it's a new attachment for a Kitchen-Aid Stand Mixer, to give everyone an idea of the scale. emachineshop is almost universally reviewed as expensive and rude, but I don't see a lot of alternatives for that kind of work. It isn't like PCBs -- you want a custom PCB prototyped and mass-produced, there are dozens of independent shops. I've been contacting machine shops found using Google, but they all seem to specialize in bigger work -- building forklifts and transmissions and what-not, rather than cranking out small items.

Any ideas for affordable prototyping and production of machine work?


Thanks,
Dan

It's really not that tough. Do you have CAD files? If not that's the first step. You can then send things out to quote. What volume do you anticipate? Have you selected your materials ?
There are a number of shops that specialize in prototypes.

Proforma can make simple CAD files from anything:ProFORMA - create 3D models with a webcam – Computer Chips & Hardware Technology | Geek.com
Nextengine is much more expensive, but detailed: https://www.nextengine.com/indexSecure.htm
3-D printing in plastic 3D Printers - Dimension Printing - 3D Printing, 3D Printer, uPrint, Rapid Prototyping
You can model the part in anything, and make a plastic prototype for fit with the above.

Maybe there are companies that have these services for small inventors/businesses? I once had a passing thought to create one.

I don't have CAD files yet, but I've long thought that buying a copy of AutoCAD and learning how to use it would come in handy for just such an event.

John -- thanks for the links to manufacturers. Does anyone know of any companies doing that sort of thing in, say, stainless steel? Next question for you -- What's holding you back from starting your own company?



Thanks,
Dan

Dan, try playing around with free Google Sketchup to get the hang of working with CAD tools.
It's quirky with some tools(picking up endpoints, combinding objects), but a good way of familiarizing oneself with the method of creating an environment.

The planning of a model-from the structure to the details-has to be done in a specific order or else you'll run into complications later on.
That should become instinctual.

Each CAD program is a little different, but I think the .dwg file format is the most universal. I also liked FormZ(lower price), but it may be geared towards quick design instead of transfer to machining. There are a bunch of them out there. Island911 or some of the machinists here would have better advice than I.

Thank John. Yep, if the part has any swoopy surfaces you'll need something better than Sketchup or A-cad. - those are more for architectural structures.

Dan, I don't know if you remember, from when you lived here, but my thing is product development, so I certainly do have all the tools to put shapes into 3D models, and the contacts to move it on to prototype houses. -- I know the good ones.

I'll be glad to give you a few hours ...maybe get whatever modeled and off for proto quote. My pm box is likely full, so drop me a line ...my pelican name at comcastdotnet

Ever think of protecting the idea and pitching it to Kitchen-Aid? If it really is good, they will offer to buy it from you, and you walk away with a cool amount (or perhaps a small, small % of sales)? That way you are also interested in seeing it do well, and if it soars, you do even better? They have all the contacts/mfg in place, + the KA name is stronger than yours.... + it shows up in the catalogs, etc.

(disclaimer:the following should not be construed as legal advice)

Dan,
There are a couple different approaches to fruition for the small inventor.
Most require a great amount of time and/or research and/or money, but the initial steps can be "done on the cheap", at least, by filing as small inventor at United States Patent and Trademark Office.
This is one of the few well-run government agencies.
A Provisional filing covers you(somewhat) for 2 years while developing the idea. This will probably be publically published.
A Non-Provisional will cover 30 years but requires maintinance.

First-don't keep ideas or records that can be stolen, and/or hide them carefully.
You can talk to proffesionals in the field after they sign a non-disclosure agreeement, but it could later become a "his word against ours" situation in court.
Do you searches using semi-vague terminology.

You should be asking yourself some questions:
A). Is it unique and defendable?
-This could equal millions and millions of dollars and thousands of hours of personal time later on when fighting against against an established company with a similar product on the market.
-There is a lot of "grey area" intellectual property rights overlap out there.
Your idea may be based on A+B=C, with C being the unique claim. There may already be quite a few A's and B's already existing, as well as other variations of C.

B). Will it sell?
-Is it on the market now? Is there a need? Is it a better solution? Will it compete against existing products?
-This isn't always rational. There is existing technology that sells well now, and much superior ideas that won't ever have a chance in the current marketplace climate.

C). Can I sell it?
-Is it worth enough to gamble thousands of hours creating a company to advertise and distribute it? This would probably require resourcing a fair amount of startup capitol.
-Q:If you sign an exclusivity agrement with a company, what would happen if they just put it in the cobwebbed corner? A:Non-exclusive licencing and/or minimum sales/payment contract. This is what made Bill Gates a billionaire(besides a little sweat).
-I once worked as a waiter, and a few years ago had an idea of a some kind of time-lapse labeling. Imagine "1 minute/5 minute/15 minutes" appearing on a meal ticket. This could also be usefull in a variety of applications such as when a security envelope was opened.
Could it be done by air? Light? Other? Yes to all of the above.
Do I know enough about the technology to make a claim? No way.

I'd suggest watching "Flash of Genius" starring Greg Kinnear. Great movie about the guy who invented the intermitent windshield wiper and the years of personal perseverance he spent fighting his patent infringment against GM.

In this case you're talking about an accessory to a specific item, with limited use.

If the accessory cannot be easily adapted or made for other stand mixers then your scope is pretty limited.

Many retailers are reducing the number of vendors they work with and unless your item is knock-your-socks-off brilliant, the simple truth is that a major brick and mortar retailer isn't likely to set you up as a vendor for one SKU that is an accessory type item, as opposed to a stand-alone item. Not to say they won't but unlikely.

Viral marketing the item yourself and selling through your own website or online retailers is easier, especially if you are willing to drop ship for them, instead of their stocking them item. In that scenario, they have no risk, no inventory, list the item and if it sells great, if not pull it from the site...

I would recommend taking it as far as you can to prove the idea. Talk to a lawyer about a good confidentiality / non-disclosure agreement and see if you can get to the right people at KA and hope they haven't started working on something similar in-house OR developed the idea and deemed it not market worthy. Lastly you need to worry about concept theft and determine if they opt not to use your design but come out with something similar, is it worth your time, aggravation and money to seek legal action.

I have seen this happen. At the time I worked in the Model Shop of a pretty recognizable company. Be very careful.

Find a good Industrial Designer with Engineering and Prototyping support.

As a model maker who has seen a few ideas go through my shop, it seems the ones with the best chance to make it are the simple, inexpensive to produce and sell. And you can sell A LOT of them.

Good Luck.

Wow. I'm always amazed at the wealth of good advice that turns up here. I guess a lot of Pelicans have been here before, and that's encouraging to me.

Island -- Thank you for your generous offer. I'm drafting an e-mail to you right now.

I don't really believe that any of my ideas are world-changing make-me-rich ideas. If I could develop something that fit a niche market, sell it online -- preferably by drop-shipping to distributors -- I could make a little extra on the side. If the KA attachment was reasonably popular, I might consider approaching KA themselves to see if they were interested, but I don't think that would be my first strategy. I can't imagine that it would be "knock your socks off brilliant" enough to make real brick-and-mortar retailers. In fact, I'll bet my lucky socks that you'll never see my product in Macy's. Ever.

Can it be adapted outside the niche, e.g. to do some other functions, work with other stand mixers ... sure, absolutely. It's definitely not widely applicable, and you're not going to see Sham-Wow Guy selling these on late-night TV, but I think (maybe?) that there's a niche that isn't filled here, if small.

Patents? I don't know that any of my current batch of ideas cross the line into "novel and non-obvious," though obtaining a solid patent would definitely be a sound prerequisite to approaching someone like KA.

Will it work as a business idea? Oh, that's really tough to tell. I'd like to reduce risk on that as much as possible by conducting market surveys, but those can be expensive. So I'm thinking instead that I set up a website to sell the product, complete with a mechanism for taking orders. Then I go to Google Ad Words and set up a $500 budget or so, and see if anyone follows through and clicks "Add to Cart." Before I do that, though, I should have -- at a minimum -- some detailed photographs of my product in action. That would give me at least some indication of the saleability of the thing -- are people interested? How many are interested at a given price point?

And that means I need to build a prototype, I guess.

Thanks again for all the wisdom and experience.

Dan