What's it going to take for you to believe in Him?

[cantdrv55]

I hope I don't offend anyone but I was just wondering what event has to happen to you personally to make you a believer. Will you only believe when you are on your death bed or, maybe, you will never believe at all. Just asking.

I've had a few weird, inexplicable, coincidences happen in my life recently that's got me thinking about all of this. The events are all good so someone is watching out for me and my family. Not saying I'm ready to go back to church every Sunday or even on Easter Sunday but He will definitely be in my thoughts more so than ever before.

Has anything weird and inexplicable but positive happen to you? Something that makes you think it was by design rather than luck? Something that you just can't shrug off and forget?

[kstar]

The Answer lies within:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=320927&highlight=god

[trekkor]

If you are searching for the truth, YOU WILL FIND IT.

It may not be what you expected or want, but, it is THE TRUTH.


I can help.


KT

[kstar]

[the]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

I hope I don't offend anyone but I was just wondering what event has to happen to you personally to make you a believer. Will you only believe when you are on your death bed or, maybe, you will never believe at all. Just asking.

I've had a few weird, inexplicable, coincidences happen in my life recently that's got me thinking about all of this. The events are all good so someone is watching out for me and my family. Not saying I'm ready to go back to church every Sunday or even on Easter Sunday but He will definitely be in my thoughts more so than ever before.

Has anything weird and inexplicable but positive happen to you? Something that makes you think it was by design rather than luck? Something that you just can't shrug off and forget?

Who, specifically, are you referring to when you you say "He" or "Him?"

[Milu]

Originally Posted by trekkor

If you are searching for the truth, YOU WILL FIND IT.

It may not be what you expected or want, but, it is THE TRUTH.


I can help.


KT

But it won't be in the way Trekkor thinks he'll help.

Sorry Trekkor, I couldn't resist

[slodave]

HIM?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIM_(band)

[cantdrv55]

Originally Posted by the

Who, specifically, are you referring to when you you say "He" or "Him?"

You know...God or whatever you want to call the Creator. The fella who works in mysterious ways and lets bad things happen to good or innocent people but only He knows how come.

[cantdrv55]

Originally Posted by trekkor

If you are searching for the truth, YOU WILL FIND IT.

It may not be what you expected or want, but, it is THE TRUTH.


I can help.


KT

I might come and talk to you about this someday, Trekkor.

[450knotOffice]

I was raised Catholic, but not very seriously. Oh, I did all of the usual Catholic stuff; heck, I was even an altar boy for a couple of years. But as I got older, I began to ask more and more questions, and many, if not most of these questions could not be answered by anyone to my satisfaction. In most cases I was given very simplistic, almost child-like answers to very deep, complex questions - answers like "you just have to have faith, because the bible says so, and the bible is God's word." I have never been able to accept simplistic answers like that. I had so many far-reaching and deep, deep questions about a collection of writings put together over a two or three thousand year period by human beings that saw this world very differently and much more simply than we do today. I've been somewhat interested in the history of different religions around the world over many thousands of years and just simply find it difficult to believe that one segment of the human population has somehow been chosen as the enlightened ones. And by that, I mean ALL of the religions that somehow feel they alone have the corner on God, Allah, or whatever some group may want to call him.

I've somehow come to the conclusion and hope that there very well may be some higher power out there that runs this whole universe, but that I will simply have to wait until I pass on to possibly find out more. However, while I am in this world, I will lead the best possible life I can, meaning I will treat all others (and I include ALL animals in this group) as I would want them to treat me. Be good in my heart, in other words.

At this point in my life (my early 40's), I just don't see my basic attitude about organized religion changing and I don't see myself ever becoming "born again".

Interestingly enough, I do occasionally pray to whoever might be listening. Hey, I figure I might be wrong and I have nothing to lose by talking to God, I suppose.

[stuartj]

Oh god.

[livi]

What would it take to make me a believer?

Nothing short of a miracle. So far not even close.

[frogger]

Originally Posted by trekkor

If you are searching for the truth, YOU WILL FIND IT.

It may not be what you expected or want, but, it is THE TRUTH.


I can help.


KT

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

I might come and talk to you about this someday, Trekkor.

You wont need to. He'll have PM'd you already. The cult is vociferous.

[911teo]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

I was raised Catholic, but not very seriously. Oh, I did all of the usual Catholic stuff; heck, I was even an altar boy for a couple of years. But as I got older, I began to ask more and more questions, and many, if not most of these questions could not be answered by anyone to my satisfaction. In most cases I was given very simplistic, almost child-like answers to very deep, complex questions - answers like "you just have to have faith, because the bible says so, and the bible is God's word." I have never been able to accept simplistic answers like that. I had so many far-reaching and deep, deep questions about a collection of writings put together over a two or three thousand year period by human beings that saw this world very differently and much more simply than we do today. I've been somewhat interested in the history of different religions around the world over many thousands of years and just simply find it difficult to believe that one segment of the human population has somehow been chosen as the enlightened ones. And by that, I mean ALL of the religions that somehow feel they alone have the corner on God, Allah, or whatever some group may want to call him.

I've somehow come to the conclusion and hope that there very well may be some higher power out there that runs this whole universe, but that I will simply have to wait until I pass on to possibly find out more. However, while I am in this world, I will lead the best possible life I can, meaning I will treat all others (and I include ALL animals in this group) as I would want them to treat me. Be good in my heart, in other words.

At this point in my life (my early 40's), I just don't see my basic attitude about organized religion changing and I don't see myself ever becoming "born again".

Interestingly enough, I do occasionally pray to whoever might be listening. Hey, I figure I might be wrong and I have nothing to lose by talking to God, I suppose.

You are my double. I have the EXACT same feelings after having the same upbringing. Uncanny.

[thrown_hammer]

I already do believe in “Him”. I used to get hung up on how those Christian people acted. Seemed like some of them were better than everyone else, some of them seemed to be Christians only on Sunday, etc.

Then I had a revelation. It isn’t about people. It’s about God and me. It’s not that hard to be saved. People make it seem harder than it is. God makes it easy.

PM me if you want. I’d be happy to discuss things.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

I was raised Catholic, but not very seriously. Oh, I did all of the usual Catholic stuff; heck, I was even an altar boy for a couple of years. But as I got older, I began to ask more and more questions, and many, if not most of these questions could not be answered by anyone to my satisfaction. In most cases I was given very simplistic, almost child-like answers to very deep, complex questions - answers like "you just have to have faith, because the bible says so, and the bible is God's word." I have never been able to accept simplistic answers like that. I had so many far-reaching and deep, deep questions about a collection of writings put together over a two or three thousand year period by human beings that saw this world very differently and much more simply than we do today. I've been somewhat interested in the history of different religions around the world over many thousands of years and just simply find it difficult to believe that one segment of the human population has somehow been chosen as the enlightened ones. And by that, I mean ALL of the religions that somehow feel they alone have the corner on God, Allah, or whatever some group may want to call him.

I've somehow come to the conclusion and hope that there very well may be some higher power out there that runs this whole universe, but that I will simply have to wait until I pass on to possibly find out more. However, while I am in this world, I will lead the best possible life I can, meaning I will treat all others (and I include ALL animals in this group) as I would want them to treat me. Be good in my heart, in other words.

At this point in my life (my early 40's), I just don't see my basic attitude about organized religion changing and I don't see myself ever becoming "born again".

Interestingly enough, I do occasionally pray to whoever might be listening. Hey, I figure I might be wrong and I have nothing to lose by talking to God, I suppose.

Scott, you nailed it.

Like Matteo, your story is a spot-on match for mine. If either of you are ever in this area, it would be my honor to sit down with you for a few hours over a beer or whatever and discuss.

I will also say this:

There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING that is a bigger turn-off or obstacle to my belief in a "god" or "gods" than seeing the behavior of zealots and followers.

This may come as a shock to some, but I actually have some pretty deeply-held spiritual beliefs of my own, but I don't feel the need to prothyletize them or bring them up to total strangers whom I've never met.

It is a personal thing and I neither bring it up around people I don't know (or know only casually) nor believe it's appropriate for others to bring it up around me. If you've found a belief system that works for you, then good. I'm truly happy for you. But don't think for one moment that what works for you will work for me or anyone else. If "god" is as great as you believe, than he/she/it certainly transcends individual belief systems.

I must admit I get a kick out of religious types who (mis)use the word "truth". I consider myself an ardent seeker of truth in all things - it's perhaps why I ask a lot of questions and take bold opinions on things. More often than not, these opinions really AREN'T my own. Let me say that again: More often than not, these opinions really AREN'T my own. I use them to initiate discussion or to test hypotheses (see kstarnes' chart of the scientific method above) using the fire of public discussion as a way to help guide me and forge my real opinions. Nobody participates in the "average" or "boring" discussions. People respond passionately to opinionated or extreme ones. So that's why I do it.

So back to "truth". If one REALLY is interested in truth, you have to admit that the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that there is no greater power (at least not one with any day-to-day input or influence over our lives), no afterlife, no heaven, no hell and no souls. Our realities are defined by EVIDENCE, not myth or imagination. Based on EVIDENCE (which tends to guide one to truth far easier and more reliably than myth or imagination ever does), there is no reason to conclude that any of these things exist.

However, I acknowledge that humans have an emotional side. We can't be robotic, right-brained, Vulcan-like analytical beings all the time. We need things to be passionate about and to ground us in the fact that we're NOT perfect and we're NOT machines. So we invent things and create stories and use the power of our imaginations to interpret the reality of the world the way a painter interprets a scene with his/her particular style of painting. The "impressionism" of reality is sometimes more beautiful and interesting than the reality itself!

And that's okay.

But like art, don't automatically assume that your "style" or "interpretation" will move me or that I will accept it as the "best" way. To put it another way (albeit less politely):

"If you try to jam your religion down my throat, I'll jam my boot up your ass".

[djmcmath]

Jesus tells an interesting story in Luke 16 about a rich (read: not nice) man who dies and goes to hell. Once there, he sees a servant that he mistreated on the other side, in heaven. He asks the servant to go and tell his family that they should do anything possible to avoid going to hell. The servant's response was as true then as it is today: "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."

I've simplified some for brevity, but you get the point. Those who are intent upon disbelief will not be swayed, even if someone were to come back from the dead. The evidence has been provided, as much as will be. If it isn't enough for you, then that's all there is to it.

Dan

[SCWDP911]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

So back to "truth". If one REALLY is interested in truth, you have to admit that the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that there is no greater power (at least not one with any day-to-day input or influence over our lives), no afterlife, no heaven, no hell and no souls. Our realities are defined by EVIDENCE, not myth or imagination. Based on EVIDENCE (which tends to guide one to truth far easier and more reliably than myth or imagination ever does), there is no reason to conclude that any of these things exist.

I will leave my religious views out of this thread... that said, the only flaw with your above statement are the MANY people out there that were convicted and placed in prison (even on death row) based upon all of the EVIDENCE, only to be exonerated and cleared of ALL charges later (sometimes MANY years later) based upon more CORRECT EVIDENCE...

So, I find we must be careful in assessing what is correct and how we portray that information. Sometimes, everything we think we know only shows we don't know everything (or perhaps nothing at all)... It is all individual, and as such, we should be careful about criticizing or ridiculing others for THEIR personal beliefs. They might just be the one that is right. Or not...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Religion is a great thing, until people screw it up. Really, regardless of who/what you believe, if you follow the 10 Commandments and other moral concepts outlined in the Bible, you will lead a good life. Who could disagree with not killing others, do unto others, not coveting things that others have, etc?