Is space exploration worth it?

[ed martin]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I find the claim that the military had a net benefit from NASA wrt advancing it's technology as utterly laughable.

You are in complete ignorance of historic fact. I also love the arguments that attribute man's ambition to find solutions, to try to prevent or mitigate any potential natural catastrophe to human arrogance. The population control arguments are also a winners.

[RWebb]

USAF uses it all the time - joint pgm

[looneybin]

How many people use GPS?
how about all those cool looking carbon fiber dash panels?
Nitrogen in your tires?
ALL because of the space program

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by ed martin

You are in complete ignorance of historic fact.

Well i guess you told me!

LOL

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by looneybin

How many people use GPS?
how about all those cool looking carbon fiber dash panels?
Nitrogen in your tires?
ALL because of the space program

WRONG. The Navstar GPS constallation is a military program.

Carbon fiber was developed for high performance military aircraft.

Who uses nitrogen in their tires? I don't. Is that something you're seriously pushing as justification for the space program?

Originally Posted by RWebb

USAF uses it all the time - joint pgm

The Space shuttle is NOT a USAF program, nor is it a joint program. The "USAF uses it all the time", but it's cheaper- far cheaper- to blast something into space on a conventional rocket.

The Space shuttle is one of the biggest white elephants in the history of technological development. It is almost as if someone said "Let's design the most inefficient space vessel imaginable" and ran with the idea to 'fruition'.

[onewhippedpuppy]

m21, it's very common for NASA to work on DoD projects. Yes, they're working together, it's not 100% NASA. But we're talking semantics here. It's all the US government. You contend that the military is more to thank for many of NASA's innovation, and in some cases you are correct. If NASA is working under contract to DoD, are they not serving a role? You need to look more at the work accomplished than the organization taking credit.

[m21sniper]

If NASA is working to suit the needs of the military than it's military necessity which is driving the innovation, not space exploration, which is what i said.

[onewhippedpuppy]

At the root of things, military necessity drives most technology in our country. Eventually we all benefit.

[ed martin]

For the most part NASA is a peacetime endeavor and has been marketed to the world as such. But the truth is, as with an abundance of peacetime technology that has been developed, there are military applications as well.

During the Second World War, Japan and Germany were trying to devise means to deliver ordinance in quantity to the American Homeland. Hitler had long range bombers on the drawing board until resources were channeled towards more pressing concerns. Japan tried floating ballons with incindiary devices using prevailing winds. Ultimately with the development of the V2 and the post war Soviets having pillaged the German technology, ICBM science was born.

Hence the race was on between the Soviet and American scientists to design bigger, better, faster and smarter.

Espionage was a big part of the Cold War. Each side wanted to know was the other side was doing so one componant to the astronauts mission was to scan the Soviet Union while orbiting overhead. The Cosmonauts were doing the same.

[Gogar]

Space exploration is important for reasons we aren't quite sure of yet. That's why it's called "exploration." Ask Christopher Columbus and all the rest of those 15th century Europeans.

[looneybin]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

WRONG. The Navstar GPS constallation is a military program.

Carbon fiber was developed for high performance military aircraft.

Who uses nitrogen in their tires? I don't. Is that something you're seriously pushing as justification for the space program?

How do you think the navstar got up there? a giant rubber band?

How did high performance aircraft get developed? do you think the military was willing to push the envelope for that, or did NASA do that in their early days.

Doesn't the space shuttle use nitrogen in their tires? Most tire shops now fill the tires with nitrogen

I'm not using these things as my justification for the space program, i think they do waste a HUGE amount of $$$, but you can't deny the useful everyday items that has come from it.

[ed martin]

Originally Posted by looneybin

How do you think the navstar got up there? a giant rubber band?

Thank you.

If you think about the trillions of man hours expended in the defense of our country, the design of ships, bombs, planes, tanks etc, etc, etc. It's too bad we can't just concentrate our efforts for peaceful causes exclusively. It seems that man has an innate desire to acquire power through naked acts of military aggression. That's just the way it's been throughout all of history. It would be naive to think things will be different in the future.

It's a behavior not just relegated to humans. Animals have territorial boundaries. Even chimps in the wild go hunting in bands for chimps from other territories. Once they find one they'll rip out its' throat and genitalia.

Ouch!!!

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by looneybin

How do you think the navstar got up there? a giant rubber band?

..........Snipped.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

m21, it's very common for NASA to work on DoD projects. Yes, they're working together, it's not 100% NASA. But we're talking semantics here. It's all the US government. You contend that the military is more to thank for many of NASA's innovation, and in some cases you are correct. If NASA is working under contract to DoD, are they not serving a role? You need to look more at the work accomplished than the organization taking credit.

Soooo, you're sayin that were spending a great deal more on the space program than just the $17 billion we give to NASA every year. That makes me allot feel better.

NASA has provided many new technologies, new ideas, new developments. But at what cost? Sorry, velcro isn't worth a couple of billion. There are much more efficient ways to develop new technology than trying to send people and things into space.

Nitrogen in tires? Seems to me that they've been doing that for a long, long time. Longer than NASA's been around. I know for a fact that my great, great grandfather was putting about 78% nitrogen in his tires 75 years ago!

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by looneybin

Doesn't the space shuttle use nitrogen in their tires? Most tire shops now fill the tires with nitrogen

.

And most consumer groups who tested report that using nitrogen in tires is a joke.
Consumer reports said that, And a little known company by the name of Goodyear tire and rubber company thinks it's not worth commenting on it.

The Rubber Manufacturers Association says it it's a good thing– when it's free, but not worth spending money on. Michelin goes a step further. They recommend nitrogen only for tires used "in high risk environments” like aircraft landing gear and racing.

For street cars, usibng nitrogen in your tires is a waste of time and if it's of any benefit at all, it's so small it can't be measured.
Unless you sell machines that pump tires full of nitrogen, or charge customers for "nitrogen filled" tires, then you can see the reasults clearly $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by looneybin

How do you think the navstar got up there? a giant rubber band?.

You will agree that rockets are a military invention, yes?

Originally Posted by looneybin

How did high performance aircraft get developed?

By the MILITARY.

Originally Posted by looneybin

do you think the military was willing to push the envelope for that, or did NASA do that in their early days.

They were all military pilots. So yes, ABSOLUTELY.

Originally Posted by looneybin

Doesn't the space shuttle use nitrogen in their tires?

It certianly wouldn't surprise me. :-/

Originally Posted by looneybin

Most tire shops now fill the tires with nitrogen

Car tires? On what planet? Not on this one.

Originally Posted by looneybin

I'm not using these things as my justification for the space program, i think they do waste a HUGE amount of $$$, but you can't deny the useful everyday items that has come from it.

Yes, the military "brings great things to life".

Space exploration- not so much.

[ed martin]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

You will agree that rockets are a military invention, yes?

Actually rockets were developed early in the 20th century by German hobbyists, the most prominent of which was Werner Von Braun.

[looneybin]

[QUOTE

Yes, the military "brings great things to life".

QUOTE]

I thought that was GE

[m21sniper]

GE is one of the military's biggest suppliers.

They make the greatest gatling guns on earth, bar none. Lots and lots and lots of them.

[looneybin]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

GE is one of the military's biggest suppliers.

They make the greatest gatling guns on earth, bar none. Lots and lots and lots of them.

oh yes, the mini gun 5000 rounds p/ min.
Do they also make the 50 cal used on the warthog?
I want one of those for the jerks that cut me off then drive 10 mph under the speed limit