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Winter Car? Or All in One SUV
Oddly enuff, Paul & I seem to sometimes lead parallel lives. He is searching for a sports or muscle car after de-911'ing himself (see e.g No 370 Z for me).
And I am looking to get rid of my Honda Pilot when the lease runs out in a month or two. What I REALLY want is an updated and slightly smaller version of the VW Westie Vanagon. The Westie is the poptop (pivot top) camper version. I wanted - and thought VW was going to make - a new version with modern safety features, decent passing performance, and maybe even hybrid or other low pollution, high mileage features (like a diesel for example - we can get real biodiesel here). But they didn't and are just shilling for Chrysler with their new mini-vans. So I've used SUVs while waiting for them to come out with something -- Toyota 4Runner, then a Ford Exploder, a MB ML-450, and then two Pilot leases (2003 & 2006). The Basic Decision: I could just lease a new Pilot. But they seem shorter in the cargo area, which makes it even harder to sleep in the back, and it isn't that great anyway. The floor is finally flat tho. Here's what I need: Off-road -- the Pilot is at the very edge of my "off-road" ability requirement. It needs to be able to get in and out of various places using 2-track "roads", fire roads, etc. It has 8" of ground clearance, and I figure that is a minimum. The Lexus RX350 only has 7". Snowy Road Abilities -- I need to get to my backcountry skiing spots in winter. The electronic ESP stuff works great for this. The Benz SUVs seem better to me than the 2 Pilots I've leased, but the Pilots are fine too. Hauling Ability -- I need to haul lumber, plywood, drywall, dirt, sand, gravel, flagstone... periodically. I don't need to haul sheets of plywood often, but the Pilot can take them flat with a couple feet hanging out the back. Nice to avoid using a roof rack - esp. when it's raining (and it rains all winter). Car Camping -- I need to sleep in it for summer car camping (the Pilot is nowhere near as good as a VW Vanagon Westie would be). I like to just take off in the summer whenever I feel like it and roam around on the back roads of the West. With the 911 the driving is great, but I have to tent camp. That means no camping in Grizzly country; and also no canvas addons to a 4x4 pickup. With a Westie or the MB or Pilot SUVs (to a lesser extent) I can just stop and crawl int he back to snooze. And this may force me to have 2 vehicles instead of just one. It gets me up into the mtns. in winter so I can backcountry ski. Has a particle filter for dust on those desert 2-track roads, gravel, and smoke in the Valley from field burning. Other Good things: - Dogmobile Issues -- Low Dog Jump In/Out Height -- the Pilot's floor is too high for my Golden to jump out of w/o hurting her legs. Lower is better as lifting her down to the ground gets old after a while. - Sunroof - Particle Filter for Cabin Air - these things are great and keep out pollen and dust. My summer driving routes for this type of vehicle are way dusty. - Heated seats - yeh, I'm gittin' old and these are fun, esp. if you open up the sunroof to watch the stars on a winter drive. A major problem with having 2 vehicles (besides the 911) is that I live in a compact neighborhood with little street parking and not much ability to park 2 cars on my property (the 911 likes its garage). ========================================= If I replace the Pilot then what single vehicle would I get? '09 Toyota Highlander - way too short to sleep in. Too bad 'cuz they have hybrids. '09 Pilot -- seems shorter in the cargo bed than my '06 model (which was not too great for sleeping in anyway); the '09 has a 72" long cargo bed. It is much flatter now, so that is good. Nicer interior with more cubbies for crap, and an iphone input. 'keep the '06 Pilot - I have to put a plywood sheet in the back to sleep in it as the floor slant differently. This means I can't just flip the back seats up and carry 4 people. The lease buyout is way too high, but I bet they'd negotiate down... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Supposing I did bifurcate my Pilot - I could get a used Subaru Outback (which has a tad more ground clearance than the Legacy Wagon) for a pretty decent price. Then, I'd have a winter car and could look around for a used Westie. Any thoughts on which ones are the "best" years to buy? It seems they have been real late in putting ESC on them... But any 2 car solution is a hassle re driving them enuff to keep the cars "happy." And then there is the parking hassle here. Lexus RX350 - only 7" ground clearance. Deal killer I think. Would make a real nice hwy cruiser for trips where I don't want to take the 911 and be a good winter car tho. Could either lease a new hybrid one or maybe buy a used one. Subaru Forester - anybody know anything about these? - BMW x__ station wagon. I wonder how reliable these ar, or if I could even find one where I live... Generally: - I don't care about "Image" at all. - Lower or same lease payments would be important. Just like Serena, I am cutting back. - I set up my life so I don't have to commute much - and can commute by bike too. So gas costs are not an issue -- until it gets over $/gallon again. - For running errands (like weird small metric parts of the 911), a smaller vehicle than the Pilot would be real nice to have. - same on an auto trans. - nice for city driving. - I live in a rel. isolated small city, so small volume items (like that AWD BMW wagon) can be hard to find used. My issues re that are much broader than Paul's tho. I can go to Portland if I have to to buy a used car. |
I think you should find yourself a VW Vanagon Syncro (4x4).
Don't know first-hand about the off-roading ability but surely good enough for jeep tracks and fire roads. Should be fine in snow w/ right tires. Holds plywood sheets, and stuff up to 12 feet long. Particle filter, heated seats, sunroof, ESP - I guess you can add a bit of that, and will have to be a man and cope w/out the rest. (Where do you live, Beverly Hills?) Then kit it out for camping - it should already have the Z-bed (rear bench that folds flat into double bed). Don't need the full Westy camping interior, make (or have a cabinet maker do) a minimalist (and removable) kitchen box. Don't need the pop-top, though it is a nice-to-have. If you really want to, buy a junk Westy and transplant the cabinetry and pop-top. But you'll lose some hauling room. Main weakness, when you have done all that, is that the Vanagon is pretty gutless. An engine transplant solves that, and the Subaru-Vanagon guys seem to have it all figured out, there are detailed instructions and kits w/ all the needed adapter parts to get a 150HP Vanagon. Personally, I just take my time. After all, you have a 911. That's my vote. Go to thesamba.com and ask in the Vanagon forum for more (and more informed) advice. Specs http://www.vanagon.com/syncros/technica/car-and-driver/index.html says 8.3" ground clearance. |
Probably too big but a full size Suburban/Tahoe is a great vehicle for sleeping in with the back seats out. I had a 99 for years that was bullet proof and you can get them for next to nothing. Meets your hauling, ground clearance, etc. needs but obviously gets crappy mileage. You can occasionally find a diesel version of the pre 2000 models but they are spendy.
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I know someone that is rough on vehicles that had a Subaru Forester, lots of room inside, but not sure it is enough for sleeping (maybe fetal position). Know for sure it won;t swallow a 4x8 sheet of plywood. It chewed up a couple rear wheel bearings on one side, other than that was problem free. Not sure if they determined why it ate the bearings.
Maybe look at the Volvo XC70? Looks a bit longer in the cargo area than the Forester and has 8.3" of ground clearance vs the Forester's 8.7". |
If it is just you and your dog have you considered a 4x4 pickup truck with a bed topper?
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Supercharged Hummer H2
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thx all...
almost bought a nice-looking Synchro a few years ago -- when the shop looked at it, they said it had $5k in repairs needed right away... -- common issue with them -- very hard to put a Westie camper popup on one that didn't come that way nice thing re the Westie is you can NOT pop up when in Grizz country -- as I said that rules out the pickup with soft top - so does dust issue H2's are garbage - just a fake looking GM Suburban or something with no gas mileage -- H1 had real ability a Subaru Forester would be too short to sleep in - that would be if I also got a Westie. the Subaru wagon seems more appealing to me than the Subaru Forester tho... |
Might I suggest a nice Audi Allroad. ;):p
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As I said in our emails...get a 1 ton flatbed 4X4...your choice of manufacturer...then take it to a custom camper specialty house & build your own.
BTW, I doubt that thin sheet metal would stop a determined grizzly... |
How much are Syncro's in PNW? CL has an ad, hmmm.
Seems even if you paid $8K for one and put $5K into it, you're still 1/2 to 1/3 any new vehicle that would meet your requirements. And none of the vehicles you mention, or that have been suggested so far, can do it all - 4x4, carry 4'x8's, sleep non-fetal, room to sit and cook and move around. Plus the depreciation on a nice syncro isn't likely to be much, not like losing 20% when you drive that new car off the lot. Dunno, since you want 4x4, hauling big stuff, and camping, hard to see how a 4x4 van doesn't fit the bill. Oh, that's a thought, are there any other 4x4 vans? Wanna spring for a Sprinter and have a 4x4 drivetrain installed? The other possibility would be a 4x4 pickup with a short collapsing camper like an Alaskan. http://www.alaskancamper.com/akcmpr.htm Champ on the "off-road" part. But unless you have a place to leave the slide-out camper, no good for hauling. Pickup campers are a pain, I had one on my F250, very little space inside and MPG will be awful. I think I got 8MPG fully loaded. |
I shouldn't have said "flatbed"...you can order "cab only" truck and pickups, then place whatever you like on the remaining frame.
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what about a setup like this.
http://www.travelizmo.com/archives/c...op-trailer.jpg with this tow vehicle: http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/res...sti-2-door.jpg fun to drive camp 4x4: but not much ground clearance. not sure of cargo room boxser engine |
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I doubt a Forester or BMW wagon has more ground clearance than a Lexus RX. If a Forester fits your needs, they made one with the turbocharged boxer motor. Basically a WRX for lesbians.:D
Why not a Land Crusier? Big, great towing, incredible off-road, and freakin indestructible. |
hmm, maybe I can pic up some hot lesbians??
The only synchro Westie I've ever found for sale here was 20k and had 5k worth of problems. nice thing re Subarus is that there are tons of them here -- more of them than Priuses... anybody know if they have particle filters for the interior? and when they started putting those in? |
"I doubt that thin sheet metal would stop a determined grizzly."
not the issue -- it appears impenetrable to the bear. and, yeh, if one figures out they can just rip thru it, then will be big trouble. also hard shells are required by NPS for some campgrounds. |
Rather than have the dogs jump in and out of the back, I have them get in through the door, and fold the seat bottom forward so they have a lower area to jump into and out of the car. You can also get a ramp so they can get in and out more easily
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Ford Flex?
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posted on t hat a while back - nobody like it much...
yup - a ramp is in the future. can't fold the seats that way on the current Pilot b/c of the plywood back there |
I don't think you want a westy, doesn't carry 4x8 you want a regular syncro for $3k to $7k per some quick checking. Btw the syncro westy for $20k was a good deal regardless of needing $5k work.
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Ford Flex looks like a hearse.
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I've been kinda looking for roughly the same type of vehicle for quite a while, and adding the parameters of great fuel mileage.
I'm currently using a 99' Suburban diesel, pretty much bulletproof but still lousy mileage, and I also have a 92 Explorer that is on it's last legs. I bought the Explorer new in 92 with a tape measure as I knew I was going to be sleeping in the back. Note that the Ford Explorer may be something to consider as they are cheap and plentifull. A friend of mine also has looked for similar cars, one of the ideas he had was a car that had a fold flat passenger seat so that you could use the whole length of the cabin. I think the Honda Element, or perhaps the Saturn Vue has this feature, and perhaps others. You can always put a lift kit on these cars/suvs, or a taller tire wheel combo to gain ground clearance. I saw a pic of a slightly lifted Saturn Vue with taller tires, and it looked "right", and added the needed clearance. My needs are more AWD from the skiing aspect as we tour the whole PNW for my kids ski races. We've considered trying to do a slightly lifted mini van such as the Sienna AWD. Perhaps this could be outfitted with skid plates for you? cheers, Eric |
Vehicross
http://vehicross.info/ http://forum.avtoindex.com/foto/isuzu_vehicross_photo_video_13866.html http://forum.avtoindex.com/foto/data...s_97-00_30.jpg Isuzu VehiCROSS From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isuzu_VehiCROSS Quote:
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As well, the Tacoma will tow some of the neater, small off road trailers: http://www.roamingtimes.com/smalltraveltrailers/index.aspx My son gets my 2001 Tacoma when he turns 16 and he's already planning his first cross country with the bed cab. No brainer unless you don't like small trucks. BTW, I love Land Rovers (I owned a '94 Defender 90) but be careful...they do the big parts well but the little stuff is awful. |
ok, like an fool i sold my truck. i did it just to see if it could sell, and yup, it did the very next day. what that did do to me and my life is that it turned my wife's subaru forester (yup we are both lesbians..that is me in the avatar) into my "truck". i have used it to haul lumber, and lots of hardware. amazing what you can get on the roof rack with proper tie downs. i got a few sheets of 4x8 plywood up there, driving slow.
i even used it to go hunting. i got onto a fireroad that made my hands sweaty. i creeped about, and didnt get stuck. i dont know if i would do that again. the day i kill a critter (long time coming) i will need a plan to get a dead animal into my wife's car. maybe tarps, maybe a thule roof basket, maybe a new trailer hitch with a small utility trailer. either way, the car gets 25mpg with the turbo goodness. i love the thing. but i miss a truck. |
re Lifted Van:
A friend has one of those Adventure Wagon things - I slept in it once and it was real nice as a camper. But it's a monster. Way too big for me -- he uses it for capturing snakes in the Idaho desert (he's a Snakeologist...). I just think I'm gonna rule out anything made by a US company -- my experience with the Exploder was an attempt to "Buy 'Murican" but it taught me not to. Ironically, if I do get a VW for the summer camper thing, I will have come full circle after 30 years. I used a VW pancqke motor bus almost all the way thru grad. school as a field vehicle - and I beat it unmercifully. I rebuilt and hotrodded the motor, put in a suped shock kit and all sorts of stuff. I was admiring a nice looking Westie in a store parking lot this am. No sale sign on it and the guy gave me a look like "stay away from my machine" -- it looked just great... until he started it up. Then I heard that signature VW motor sound. The sound that says "I need 200 more hp -- PLEASE!" |
so who can compare a Sube Outback with a Forester for me??
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You can get a Forester with the turbo 2.5, done deal.:D Outback is faux luxury, no thanks.
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/fi...9-FORESTER.jpg |
You'll have the only N2O Vanagon around.
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OWP is correct. we found the outback too posh. the forester felt the same as the outback, but it was significantly less expensive.
you cant go wrong with that new forester. we have one generation older. |
A syncro vanagon was tailor-made for your needs. There is nothing else out there.
Right now on www.thesamba.com, page 2 of the vanagon classifieds, there is a 1986 syncro vanagon (not a camper, not a pop-top) with a Suby V6 engine with 2000 miles. I think those engines are over 200 HP. And it's located in Renton, WA. I'd drive up to take a look on Saturday. He wants $17,500, and it might be worth it. |
If you do get a nice syncro, you can always come down to Hollister CA next May 5 for Synro deMayo 2009. It's a blast. Lots of vans come down from Oregon and Washington.
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thx - I'll keep that in mind.
The Synchro has a horrendous reputation for breakdowns and maintenance... I'm acquainted with a guy in town who has the full super-boogie wagon treatment on his tho. It looks mean. |
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My '83 has 194,000 miles on it and has been very reliable over the last three years. It is down right now with worn out hydraulic lifters, but I'm fixing them at a cost of about $100. My syncro is just as reliable. The reputation that syncros have as unreliable is bogus, IMHO. Do a search and read up on them on thesamba. |
I have another idea. Buy a syncro with a bad engine for cheap. Send it to Stehpan's ******** in Sacramento - www.stephans********.com - for $10K they will install a 1.8T VW engine with upwards of 240 HP. Even 350 HP if you want. That should do the trick.
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