I used to be the same way. As I get older and get more things on my plate, I just want the thing to work. Thats what the Dillon does, work and work good... forever.

:D You got me nailed. I just went to look at and try my wife's boss's 550B..... Worked fine and looked brand spanking new..... for $500 cash I can have it. I really don't like having to feed both the cases and bullets along with loading the primer tubes one primer at a time.... seemed tedious. If I buy it, I will have to figure out at least a DIY case feeder system similar to the Lee's. The Lee sometimes gets an upside down 9mm case, but there is a simple 5 minute fix for that on-line.

Yeah, but I am not old like you.... yet. :D

The Dillon is the way to go, it's a better build for sure.

Never mind. Buy a Lee and fuss and tinker with it all you want. If I am going to reload, I want to reload then go shooting, not re-design something.

I have a Dillon XL 650 and love it. This year, I've loaded about 18K rounds of 5.56 through it. It's had it's hickups but overall a very nice machine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1262387384.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1262387401.jpg

The 650's sure sound nice but are definitely a bit pricier. Do you use the case feeder for .223 Leland? How much does 1000 rounds of practice ammo cost you to make? I have not been shooting my AR much and have maybe a thousand rounds of cheap steel cased Wolf and Brown Bear for it which seemed alot cheaper when I bought it compared to what I thought I heard many guys claim it costs them to reload.

Last time I cheacked, it was costing me about $.18 a round to reload using LC brass, 55gr FMJBT and AA 2230 powder.

You can get the steel cased Wolf ammo very near that, but I'm still leary about using steel cased ammo in my AR. The laquered ammo is a no-no, but even the polymer coated stuff has got to be hard on your chamber.

The casefeeder is an absolute must when loading bulk like I do. All I do is crank and place projos in the cases.

Totally agree. It makes all the difference in the world.

:D Now you are confusing me.... the Lee has a case feeder the 550 does not. Are you now telling me to go with the Lee because it has the extra features :confused: :D :D

You can get a casefeeder for the 550 too.

Tim,

The case feeder speeds up things by about 10x. If you want to pump out some rounds, it makes a big difference. If you are doing "one at a time" special loads then its not as big of a deal but looking at Lee's ammo boxes there he is not doing one at a time.

In the old days I would load 2-3000 rounds of .45 auto or .357 mag at a time. You could do this in 1.5 to 2 hours with a good progressive with a case feeder. Do not even try this with a Lee unless you had the whole weekend.

Slight hijack here.

Hey Lee and Sniper, here is my "Coming to Philly" thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/519314-dr-phil-coming-philly-area-6th.html

Well, no. The Dillon Square Deal does not.
The 550 is the only Dillon that doesn't auto-index.

I was answering the question about if the Lee used standard dies.

I've fixed my 2 Lyman Spar-T turret presses and I'm at about 25,000 rounds loaded with them so far. Not bad for a manual press!!

I notice that you also use the Dillon primer pocket swager. I use mine for .223 and .308 military cases and I'm very happy with it. How do you like yours?

This is a very timely thread since I'm comparing progressive presses. What's confusing me are the costs for each unit to switch from caliber to caliber. I load 14 different calibers and already own the Lee Precision dies, so I'm looking for a way to reduce my manual labor and increase my efficiency to load large quantities of range ammo for both pistol and rifle. I have 3 Lyman turret presses, but I would like to "step up" to a progressive...

The Dillon swager does quite well... but you learn to loathe it after the 15,000th round or so.

;)

Swapping calibers on a Dillon progressive can be done on the cheap (reusing the tool head and powder funnel/primer tube assembly) or on the spendy side (seperate setups per caliber).

It looks like it will cost me about $300 to swap to a .308 setup on my XL650.

That includes the following:

Case feeder plate (large rifle)

Dies

Tool heads (x2)

Caliber conversion kit

Powder funnel

If you go this way, you can build the toolhead up with the dies and powder funnel and not have to swap dies out back and forth on one tool head to change calibers. If you don't mind doing the work to reset your dies everytime you change calibers you only need the following:

Dies

Caliber conversion kit

case feeder plate

(possibly a magnum powder bar)

So, it can be done for a bit less this way.

I also have a copy of the Dillon XL650 owners/operation video on DVD if anyone would like to have it.

Art, I just passed on buying my wife's boss's Dillon 550. I will likely go with a Lee Loadmaster or maybe even the cheaper Pro 1000 for $159.00 set-up for 9mm. Unlike you, I only intend to reload 9mm in mass quantities. After researching a lot of websites and forums, I am quite confident I can make a Lee Pro 1000 work just as fast as a Dillon 650. While the Leee progressives are not for everyone, I am well aware of the Lee progressive weak points and feel I can easily deal with any problems that arise. My biggest problem with the 550's are that they do not have a case feeder. Yes one can buy one, but that just adds several hundred more to the cost and you end up with a press that still does not auto index.

I have heard of many guys buying seperate Lee Pro 1000's for each caliber they load because at $159 you end up with a dedicated auto indexing case feeding press.

I do not question the fact that Dillon presses are better quality and have awesome customer service, but I am confident "I" can safely make more rounds per hour with a $159 Lee Pro 1000 than I can with a $500 Dillon 550b.

Graf & Sons - LEE PRO 1000 RELOADER 9MM LUGER

Tim,
Thanks for the good info. I'm leaning towards the Dillon 650. I load 14 different calibers, so the "switchover" costs are significant to me.

FWIW, there is a Dillon 550B for sale on the Philadelphia Craigslist for ~$300 ish.

If any of you need me to eyeball it for you let me know in a PM.

It's been 11 days, have you ordered the thing yet?

Nope..... I have been farting around with other projects the last couple of weeks (designing revised bullet trap, practicing .22 bullseye with wife, cafe project, ATC project etc) . I am pretty sure I will end up ordering a Lee sometime before spring. I presently have about 3500 rounds of WWB, so I do not really NEED to start reloading 9mm for a while yet and the Lee's appear to stay in stock most places.

Good! Maybe you will come to your senses and buy a Dillon that you do nothing to but pull the handle and reload, not a Lee that you re-engineer time after time trying to get it to be like a Dillon.

My Father tried and tried to drill it into my thick head but it took years after he passed for me to realize something. The time you waste doing things that are not important is time that you can never get back. As a kid it seems meaningless but once you get older and realize this. I love to putz and tinker with things. Am tired of having too many projects, some of which I will never get completed before I die.

Time to put the key in the thing, or turn the switch on and just enjoy it.

That logic works for most, but my enjoyment often stems from the tinkering. ;)
The reason I have so many toys in my shop is not because I make alot of money.... trust me, I don't.... It is because I enjoy the challenge of building/fixing/restoring stuff. It is what I do and who I am. Maybe someday I will tire of building/modding/restoring stuff, but so far at 43, it still is what I enjoy.

That said, I won't 100% rule out owning a Dillon of some sort, but I won't ever spend $1000 to have an auto indexing/casefeeding version. I have much better uses for my limited hobby funds than blowing a grand to make 9mm ammo.

I am not claiming Lee makes better quality progressive presses than Dillon (in fact I am confident Dillon is superior quality). After researching this for awhile now, I am however predicting that "I" can make a $159 Lee progressive spit out more 9mm rounds per hour than I can with a $500 Dillon 550B. Whether anyone agrees with me does not really matter anymore at this point as negative comments will only strengthen my resolve. ;):D

I'm 90% settled on the Dillon XL650 for my 1st progressive press. I'm going to a buddy's house and see one in action and get a better idea what's required to switchover from one cartridge type to another. Since I load 14 different types, the switchover process and costs are very important to me. Thanks for the good info!

Thats kinda like saying Angelina Jolie is coming over for the weekend and I am going to see if I like her or not!

You will like it, its just a question of how much. The 650 is a very nice press and worth every penny.

I'm most concerned about the "switchover process" when changing cartridges from one caliber to another and the associated costs... I have 3 Lyman Spar-T turret presses setup now with my Lee Precision dies in the turret, so I don't have to keep adjusting them.

I have a Lee Loadmaster dedicated to .223.

I have a Lee Pro 1000 dedicated to 9mm.

I have a Lee "big" Classic press dedicated to .50 BMG.

I have a Lee Breech Lock that is dedicated to depriming and is occassionally used for other small tasks.

For all other calibers and competition loads, I have a Lee Classic Turret. I have multiple turrets that I simply pop in for a new caliber. I don't use a powder measure with the turret press, I have a Lyman automatic scale that I use instead.

The only real problems that I have with any of my Lee presses is that the Pro 1000 has a rather poor primer feed system (it often seats primers sideways or crushes them--I always use Winchester primers for this reason) and the Lee Perfect Powder measures spews BL-C2 on the Loadmaster. I think I'm going to purchase a Hornady powder measure to fix the problem. I think it's funny that the Lee Perfect Powder Measure is around $20, and the Hornady powder measure w/ progressive press kit is around $120.

On an unrelated note, I have three Lee Perfect Powder measures for sale. They work great as long as you don't hook them up to a progressive press.

Well I ordered this and this from MidwayUSA.com for my Loadmaster. Hopefully the mess of ball powder will end and the press will have a smoother action.

Hey Art,

How did things go?

Well, I installed the new Hornady powder measure. It took a little setup, both hooking up the press kit to the measure and the measure to the press, then it took some adjustment of the powder die. I crushed the first case--but I wasn't really reloading, just setting up. I'm throwing a very consistent 26.0 grains of BL-C2 now with no leakage.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265249992.jpg

Why was the Lee unit "leaking" powder Chris? Did it always spill a bit or did something break/wear out? While I have heard of occasional poor indexing and primer feeding, I have not read of anyone having problems with the powder system on the Lee progressives.

I have three of these Lee Perfect powder measures. The only one that leaks is the one that uses BL-C2, which is a small ball powder, and is mounted to a press.

I think it's a combination of a small powder and the way the press puts off-center pressure on the arm and opens a small gap (the whole thing is plastic) when dispensing powder.

Now, if you are ordering a press for a pistol caliber, you get the Autodisk powder measure, which is a completely different design and suffers from non of these problems.

Thanks for the explanation Chris.

Just got a bunch of goodies! :) Just need some time to set everything up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1268836033.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1268836063.jpg

Excellent!!!