You know...

[TechnoViking]

I drove a 1980 Chevy Citation in high school (yea, I was cool like that). You put the brakes on while driving in the rain and the back end becomes the front end real quick. Ask me how I know.

Anyway, they did a recall. It was a big deal, and I'm sure at least a few people died, but I don't remember anyone testifying before congress or a grand jury.

Yea, like someone just said, if anyone wants to trade their dangerous, unreliable Tundra for my Expedition, let me know.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by 930gt-40r

As I sit here and listen about the gas peddal drama with Toyota and how it is going before a grand jury and such, I can't help but think about the inherent conflict of interest here... The American government now owns part of some of the American car companies and who are they targeting with all of this legal crap? Toyota. Now I understand and appreciate the problem (a rather big one) but I am sick of hearing total idiots say now that Toyota's are bad cars because of one bad defect just because they hear it on the news. Now I am not partial to Toyota (except 4th gen Supra...) but as a mechanic and someone who understands production, I know that they are still far superior products to the American variants. This is also coming from the mouth of someone who also loves American muscle but also understands that our new automotive products have been junk for many years. I am just wondering if anyone else out there can't stand listening to the propaganda being blurted out about an otherwise very respectable company and the governments b.s action towards them. Hell, who remembers the Firestone/ford exploder incidents? The media and government didn't get nearly as involved in that...

Bingo. You nailed it.
I like the truth, not emotional and irrational circle-jerking.
I have already questioned the motives of the jump on the bandwagon Toyota haters here.

[p911dad]

It's the American Way. We must tear down anything or anyone iconic that also seems to be getting a little too confident and successful, and maybe a little too arrogant. After the Toyota Way gets humbled, it will be eventually time to rehabilitate them, but they will won't be iconic again for a long while, just a car company. Once the press smells blood it's all over. Another hero that turns out to be not.

[Bill Douglas]

They said on our news (here in New Zealand) that the Toyota problems don't affect us as our Toyotas are built in Japan. Lots of things come to mind.


Anyway, whereever the cars are built, I wouldn't drive one of those "two cars in one" Prius things anyway. Petrol or electric, but no firking about having both in one car.

[930gt-40r]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Say what? The media was all over the Firestone debacle when it happened.

Yes they were, but not to this extent. They are constantly talking about these Toyotas to the point where I am getting annoyed where I don't remember getting annoyed with the Firestone incident. I was more refering to the government's involvment is what gets me.

[930gt-40r]

Originally Posted by strupgolf

All you have to do is -------TURN OFF THE IGNITION KEY-------, OR PUT FOOT ON BRAKE, it's that simple. Car stops, your're safe. Case closed.

I guess from what everyone is saying this doesn't work, but I have a quick quote from Robert Duvals character in Days of Thunder when Tom Cruise's gas pedal got stuck...

"Push in the clutch, over rev the son of a b!tch and let it blow- its over!"

[BlueSkyJaunte]

The gov't was:

a) Asleep at the switch
b) Bought off
c) Too farkin' stupid to fund NTSB/NHTSA appropriately (heard on NPR today they haven't a single EE or software engineer on staff)
d) All of the above

Now your duly elected heroes are in damage control mode as they attempt to show how "outraged" they are at having the wool pulled over their eyes.

[Evans, Marv]

In the government's case (hearings, grand jury, etc.), it gives the politicians something to do that might get their mugs on TV and diverts the public from the failing job they are doing. On the media side, it's manipulated to increase ratings. It's all SNAFU.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Rick V

As a fellow mechanic I agree 100%, just look at my sig. I wouldn't own a new (ish) American car. They are all substandard. IMO

Really? All of them? Care to apply that to the Cadillac CTS which beats out all "foreign" competition, except the BMW 3-series?

And let's talk about Ford's Ecoboost engine that has the horsepower mavens smiling, and the govt very pleased with Ford's increased CAFE standards.

Now if you want to talk about American assembly instead of American engineering, I can say we have perfectly good late-model Mercedes that was assembled in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, by American workers who did a damn fine job, I must add.

I could go on, but facts are boring, if not in some cases, humiliating.

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by dd74

Really? All of them? Care to apply that to the Cadillac CTS which beats out all "foreign" competition, except the BMW 3-series?

And let's talk about Ford's Ecoboost engine that has the horsepower mavens smiling, and the govt very pleased with Ford's increased CAFE standards.

Now if you want to talk about American assembly instead of American engineering, I can say we have perfectly good late-model Mercedes that was assembled in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, by American workers who did a damn fine job, I must add.

I could go on, but facts are boring, if not in some cases, humiliating.

uh huh, put 100k on the clock and drive down the road, clanks, rattles squeaks, ect. I am not saying that they are all junk, I made a generalization and for that I apologize since I don't like them. I just haven't seen or driven anything from the big 3 in a decade that I would want to own.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

As the owner of a 4Runner, I am pro-Toyota.

As the owner of a corporation, I am pro-corporation.

Take the government out of the equation entirely and what do we have: Toyota covering up an engineering/production flaw that killed people.

Again, take government out of the equation. How long would Toyota have waited to fix the problem? How many people would die before capitalism and free market economics would force them to fix the problem due to buyer backlash and lower sales?

Take emotion, hatred and distrust of government out of the equation: how long would Toyota have waited to fix the problem?

How long would they have HAD to wait before the problem effected sales?

[gprsh924]

Interesting take on the situation

Holman Jenkins: Toyota and the Mystery of Sudden Acceleration - WSJ.com

[930gt-40r]

Originally Posted by dd74

Really? All of them? Care to apply that to the Cadillac CTS which beats out all "foreign" competition, except the BMW 3-series?
And let's talk about Ford's Ecoboost engine that has the horsepower mavens smiling, and the govt very pleased with Ford's increased CAFE standards.
Now if you want to talk about American assembly instead of American engineering, I can say we have perfectly good late-model Mercedes that was assembled in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, by American workers who did a damn fine job, I must add.

The Cadillac CTS is fast, Ok- but it is still a bargain basement built pile of crap that is not going to stand the test of time. It doesn't matter how much they charge for it or who it competes with- there are always going to be things that don't fit right, rattles, and more plastic than rubbermaid. Yes they made the car perform, but so what? If it isn't going to be worth anything in ten minutes whats the point? Now if you talk to me about a 70' Chevelle or 69' Charger- those are real cars that ar here 40+ years later- not these "recyclable" and unsustainable junks they make today. America fired all of its engineers and replaced them with accountants (no offense to accountants, you guys just shouldnt design cars...)

As for the labor- the shops that build the German stuff do a great job- I agree with you. Reason? Non-U.A.W and German design and German expectations.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by 930gt-40r

The Cadillac CTS is fast, Ok- but it is still a bargain basement built pile of crap that is not going to stand the test of time. It doesn't matter how much they charge for it or who it competes with- there are always going to be things that don't fit right, rattles, and more plastic than rubbermaid. Yes they made the car perform, but so what? If it isn't going to be worth anything in ten minutes whats the point? Now if you talk to me about a 70' Chevelle or 69' Charger- those are real cars that ar here 40+ years later- not these "recyclable" and unsustainable junks they make today. America fired all of its engineers and replaced them with accountants (no offense to accountants, you guys just shouldnt design cars...)

As for the labor- the shops that build the German stuff do a great job- I agree with you. Reason? Non-U.A.W and German design and German expectations.

It's time you emerged from the 1970s and 80s. There have been Cadillac models in our extended family for the last 25 years, and not a single one has caused undue mechanical, electrical or otherwise engineering issues. The CTS I know of has over 60,000 miles and has never had an issue. On a day-to-day driving, it easily compares with anything any German manufacture produces.

Consumer and car magazines continually test the CTS (as an example) in comparison with the C-series Mercedes and the 3-series BMW.

Others to consider: the Ford Taurus SHO, the Impala, the Fusion and dearly departed Pontiac G8.

You're missing out because of your myopic vision of American cars as less than par. It seems now that the race track is the only place that distinguishes BMW from American sedans (the CTS, Taurus SHO and Pontiac G8, have already eclipsed the M-B C-series in performance driving). But really; a 4,000-pound family sedan at the race track? Get a Formula Ford for that sort of driving.

[t-tom]

Go look at how many cops have died in 2005 and newer Ford crown vic's. After their gas tanks explode. Ford didnt even have to fix the problem. All they did was add an optional automatic fire suppression system and special "trunk packs" That the police department has to pay extra for! You sure dont see much from the media about this!

[Hugh R]

I have an 08 Camry Hybrid. Just to see, while driving down the road, I slipped the car from D to N and guess what?, the engine continued to run, but it was in neutral. Why not do that?

[gprsh924]

So from that above story, basically every system on the car failed at once, even the mechanical gears? Something isn't right.

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by dd74

It's time you emerged from the 1970s and 80s. There have been Cadillac models in our extended family for the last 25 years, and not a single one has caused undue mechanical, electrical or otherwise engineering issues. The CTS I know of has over 60,000 miles and has never had an issue. On a day-to-day driving, it easily compares with anything any German manufacture produces.

Consumer and car magazines continually test the CTS (as an example) in comparison with the C-series Mercedes and the 3-series BMW.

Others to consider: the Ford Taurus SHO, the Impala, the Fusion and dearly departed Pontiac G8.

You're missing out because of your myopic vision of American cars as less than par. It seems now that the race track is the only place that distinguishes BMW from American sedans (the CTS, Taurus SHO and Pontiac G8, have already eclipsed the M-B C-series in performance driving). But really; a 4,000-pound family sedan at the race track? Get a Formula Ford for that sort of driving.

Coming from someone who makes a living with a wrench, and has for over 20 years, I would not own one. I would also put one against my C-Class for fit finish and repair history and how well they compare after 100k each. As with any product there is good and bad, I just find that there is more bad from the big 3 than anywhere. I am also tired of domestics constantly, year after year building stuff that we are told that we want.
I should also mention that I quit racing a few years ago, so my opinions are based on a daily driving point of view and a repair opinion.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Rick V

Coming from someone who makes a living with a wrench, and has for over 20 years, I would not own one. I would also put one against my C-Class for fit finish and repair history and how well they compare after 100k each. As with any product there is good and bad, I just find that there is more bad from the big 3 than anywhere. I am also tired of domestics constantly, year after year building stuff that we are told that we want.
I should also mention that I quit racing a few years ago, so my opinions are based on a daily driving point of view and a repair opinion.

You have one point here that I cannot argue with: I don't keep cars past, or anywhere close to 100,000 miles. The only car I did keep past 100,000 was a Honda Accord, which at 110,000 had an electrical meltdown on the Hollywood Freeway going south.

[930gt-40r]

I dont know about these testimonies- how many of them were there? AND, how many of them are people simply covering their own ass in the event of an accident? How many are doing it just to get on TV? How many ACTUALLY had the reflex to try slipping into nuetral and or pull the key from the ignition. I dont know about the hybrids, but if you throw a car into nuetral, you are disconnecting the mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels, so WTF? Now with the Hybrids, it would make a little more sense, but there is still a transmission. I would volunteer to drive one of these things to attempt to replicate the problem. I know there is a mechanical/electrical foul up on Toyota's part, but something surrounding all of this $hit stinks of B.S.