You are funny about the draftsman.

I Had guy ask me about that very same subject about my subs. So I gave him My plumber, electrical man, and drywaller. It turned out that he call them himself and did the remodel himself with my guys. I was a little pissed and them laughed about it after a few hours. I talked to my subs after I found out what was going on and all of them say they that they would not have taken the job if they had known what was happening. I use the very same subs each and every job. They are trained. the job went well without any trouble because they all know each other from doing work for me. I just wish that one job they would screw up would be this one, but they didn't. Too bad. I usually are real careful with selecting clients. I interview them as well as they interview me. This one hit me like a freight train from the back and did not see it coming. Live and learn. Would I do it again, you bet. I believe there still are many good people out there.

We hired the one contractor who didn't tip the bullschit scales into the red zone....and had great references from friends. He was straight forward. He said basically said, "I won't be the cheapest, or the most expensive bid you get. Thats just what I think its going to cost. I'll bill you every 2 weeks. Any work you do knocks the price down, so feel free to paint and help me if you like."

Bingo. We hired that guy. Its worked out very well.

Any good contractor should have a healthy list of satisfied customers they can send you to.

have him meet with your wife first!

If he shows your wife respect, then you meet him as well after.

That and try to find out how many jobs he's trying to juggle.

This is astonishingly poor advice.

A GC typically hires the subs. As such, if a given sub wants to get hired again, what are the odds that he/she will give a factually correct assessment of what so-and-so GC is like, knowing that a (factually) poor reference may cost them work in the future?

As far as hiring draftsmen, this makes absolutely no sense in the context of this discussion. The services I'm recommending an architect perform are providing first-hand and impartial recommendations of GCs (and subs) with whom he or she has first-hand experience. Architects deal with builders every day and know who the good ones and bad ones are. A draftsperson would not know this and frankly, asking a draftsperson to perform this service would likely be illegal, in addition to being ridiculous.

If you want to hire a draftsperson to draw up your new house, good luck. The discussion about using an architect on a residential project has been beaten to death, but generally speaking here's what you'll find:

1. Clients balk at the up-front cost
2. Clients fail to see the long-term/big-picture benefit of an architect-designed house
3. To save money, most defer design/drafting to a GC or a drafting service, and end up paying for it in the long run.
4. A GC will build what HE wants to build (usually driven by what his particular comfort zone/experience level is, known subs, known materials & practices, etc.) They WILL NOT typically build YOU what YOU want. They'll instead spend a lot of time convincing you that what THEY want to build really IS what you want. They're great salesmen, but very poor (typically, some exceptions) at responding to YOUR direction as the client.
5. An architect will build what YOU want, identify YOUR specific needs and integrate all the issues pertaining to life-safety/codes, life-cycle cost considerations, personal owner goals, neighborhood & local regulatory requirements, etc. They are legally YOUR advocate and are bound by fiduciary duty to YOU. This goes WAY, WAY, WAY above and beyond what any contract can ever stipulate.
6. That said, there are not many architects (normally) who will do small residential work - there's simply not enough fee in it given the amount of work required to deliver a product commiserate with professional expectations. There are some, but you'll have to look. In any event that's a separate discussion and way beyond this discussion - what we're talking about here is who should make recommendations on a GC. It certainly ain't no draftsman...

Rob, your disdain for the architectural profession is clouding your judgment and your credibility here. Stop drinking the HaterAid and just admit that CMs and/or builders can not do everything an architect can. Actually whether you admit it or not, thems the facts bro.

To put the above another way, do you SERIOUSLY think a sub is going to say "oh yeah, I know XYZ Construction - they're gonna' low-bid your job and then cram it up your keister in change orders", especially when the sub himself has a potentially vested financial interest in getting those change orders (extra $$$ for him)?

C'mon.

Not a fraction of the number totally screwed over by incompetent, corrupt contractors...sub contractors and suppliers...

The assumption is that a 'home' is to be rebuilt..not a house.
Two things spring to mind..is the home to be rebuilt as it was, faults and all...or is Bi and his family gonig to use this opportunity to address the issues they felt their home had and of making it better?

I'd suggest that the latter is the better course of action and that an architect would be the person who can best interpret their desires and requirements into physical space within which they create their new home.

The architect is also more likely to be able to advise on the GC issue as a way of delivering the new home they want....

Save the money now and pay for it in inconvience, hassle and general buggeration for the rest of your time there....;)

We're not talking about an asset as a vehicle to make money.. we're talking about rebuilding somebody's home, either on the same plot or elsewhere.

The cost of an architect versus draftsman may on paper be a huge $ amount but the ROI is vast, especially in building a 'home'.

So get the design right, in terms of what you want (and even with clear ideas the vast majority of home owners have no real idea of what they want..) and then find a contractor is comfortable building what you want and the materials you want.

There are contractors I'd use for large buildings that I would not trust to do the smallest job in my own home and vice versa..

Ya, Ya, Ya.
and how many houses did you build last year?
I built 9 houses last year in my spare time fwiw :)
I'm also over $100Million in construction development too.

I was pulling your leg on the architect thingy a wee bit; did I hire an architect for my 9 houses last year.... nope. But I have worked with architects for many years and I wouldn't do a large project without one that's for sure. T'was really just a long awaited poke at Jeffery. :)

As for referrences of subtrades, you got it a little messed up there? I can tell you alot more about a contractor from talking to his trades than anyone else. When I hire a contractor there is a tremendous RISK factor involved everytime and I want to know who/what I'm dealing with; I guess its part of the school of hard knocks?

I dont post here much anymore, but this was fun :) Thanks.

fwiw, I've also moved alot being in the RE bizz and I've lived in a few homes that were actually designed by an architect and not one of your cookie cutter floor plan boxes you find today in most sub-divisions..... everyone of those homes were beautiful and a joy to live in. I'll admit there is a real difference, no doubt; but it's gonna cost you, and not 'just' upfront. On the other hand, it'll also generate a higher resale value and likely appreciate better than most homes would too.

I actually LOVE architecture, so cheers :)

I Love good architecture too.... I just hate having to follow them on jobs....

Rob,

Ya got me there...9 houses..good man.
Last year was just a tad busy...needing to get this one done...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267817346.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267817439.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267817473.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267817512.jpg

Its only 400 apartments....;)

It follows 400 I built here....

Foster + Partners

Done a few private houses too...like this one..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267819177.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267819275.jpg

Just not this year...

I guess we look at the hiring of contractors from different parts of the spectrum.

Best..

MFAFF,
Wow!!

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Very impressive!
Sorry once again, my comments were not meant to be directed at you; I was just poking some fun at Jeff there.

I came through a large commercial background where I built hospitals, schools, apartments, shopping centers, etc; so I can appreciate your post; once again very impressive.

So you were the architect on those projects?

My bad once again; I just think people should take abvise from those who've done it and not those posters who are posers; so there's a 10 year history of posting here that you've gotten involved in. My projects I'm the owner and with that the buck $$$ stops there.
Cheers!

just checked out your site; very impressive! Whoa!
Really puts mine to shame www.rolyn.biz
But such is life, as long as we're both happy, that's what really counts to me!

Wonder if Jeff has a link to his site?

My other site is BIGRob

Cheers again, I'd love to know your position at Foster?
I've worked with many top knotch architectural firms in Western Canada, but that's about it. It's always fun and exciting though and I really miss it; just dont miss the headaches.

Alot more money selling the buildings than building them :eek:

;)

:d

Cool, thanks for the info with a tip of me hat ;)

You would have the lot cleared, including the old foundation. Was mentioned earlier.

You sell a clear lot.

I was thinking if he rebuilt the existing home and salvaged what he could, not if he did a tear down.

I am a small time custom remodeling contractor and also own a wood/cabinet shop. I need an architect on some jobs, others I talk clients out of them. It really depends on the situtation. I hear this kind of stuff all the time. Lets be realistic and find out how extensive the damage is to the house first, before we make suggestion on selling or rebuilding. We do lots of project like the poster describe expect the fire damaged part. Many of my projects are usually clients who want to gut the house and rebuild it from the inside out. Many I simple wouldn't do withour an architect due to their high dollar value. Also, a game we play, if there an architect involve, the client few better about spend serious money because they think they feel that they are getting something better, due to the big bucks they pay. Some of these are easily upwards of 500k remods.

You need to find a contractor that are design savy and are not afraid to do things outside of their daily routine and construction methods. Ask to look at their jobs and look at their finish work. Many great builders can't do finish with a damn. As for the architect, do youreally need one? I don't know. If it is the garage roof and a bunch of smoke damage, then you should not need one. Have the contract or draftsman draw a simple plan and submit it and have a go at it. The question is, again, how bad is the damage. Good luck, they are out there.

Jeff